Welcome to the Classical Gas Message Board Archive

You can search here and make comments to the old posts but there will not be anything new. Thats over on the Classic Trials Facebook Group

Click Here for more information and links

MOVING TO FACEBOOK

I hope everyone knows, by now, that this site has less than two months to run and is being replaced by a Facebook Group. Although initially sceptical, and not previously a Facebook member, I'm now convinced that this is the correct way forward. I also know that many of you will be nervous about becoming involved with Facebook, so here is a simple guide for those who are not currently members of Facebook but wish to join for the sole purpose of using the Classical Gas Discussion Group.

1. Go to http://en-gb.facebook.com/ and Sign Up. You must use your real First Name and Surname or you will not be allowed to join the group.

2. Go to http://www.facebook.com/groups/classictrials/. You will be able to see the Group, and read the posts, by you cannot start a post or comment on a existing post. Click "Join Group" - towards the top right of the screen - and a message will be sent to Michael.

3. After Michael has approved your membership (you will receive an email notification), you will have full access to Write Posts and Comment on existing posts.

There are a few other points:

Generally use Write Posts to start a post, Ask Question is similar but includes a poll which members can vote on.

Posts and Comments within the Group are completely separate from posts made in your News Feed. You can ignore the News Feed completely if you intend to use Facebook for the Classical Gas Discussion Group only.

You do not need to include Group members as Facebook Friends. Indeed you can ignore the whole Friends function completely if you intend to use Facebook for the Classical Gas Discussion Group only.

That's all I can think of for starters. Give it a try, and give it a try as soon as possible, the clock is ticking for the end of Multiply!

Marlin Project

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marlin-Kit-car-Unfinished-project-long-wheelbase-spares-or-repair-/180957166249?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2a21e33aa9

Could be a good starting point if you want to build a trails car from scratch. Only fly in the ointment would be IVA and I am sure the Marlin Owners Club would be able to advise.

please read and get involved

Armageddon

Posted on August 21, 2012 by Ace_admin

Download a PDF version of this post

The Headline News

ACE has always been of the opinion that modifying of vehicles would eventually end by the ability to do so being slowly eroded by small pieces of legislation rather than one single regulation.

We have unfortunately now been proved correct with a single item before the EC parliament that will prevent any modifying and will, currently, render already modified cars illegal.

Without a large effort over the next 6 weeks this ’proposal’ will pass into law very shortly afterwards.

We have in our possession a questionnaire issued by DfT asking for views on the legislation and we feel it couldn’t make any clearer the end outcome.

This is NOT a Consultation document as there are no active documents via VOSA or DfT relating to this legislation.

Quoting from the DfT document:-

The Commission proposes to introduce a definition for a roadworthiness test that components of the vehicle must comply with characteristics at the time of first registration. This may prevent most modifications to vehicles without further approval of the vehicle. (this will apply to many components and to all types of vehicle)

The Commission proposes to change the definition of an Historic Vehicle that may be exempt from periodic testing. This may allow vehicles older than 30 years to be exempt from testing providing the vehicle has been maintained in its original condition, including its appearance.

http://tinyurl.com/cpw5lnj

In the DfT interpretation it is all ‘proposes’ and ‘may’ .

However, as shown later in this article, This is going to happen unless a member of the EC Parliament forces reconsideration.

Normally a ‘proposal’ such as this would require a separate Consultation to be done with all interested parties. However this is not the case as this ‘proposal’ brings together various items already covered in previous Consultations. Again this will be dealt with in depth further on in this article.

The proposal itself

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/doc/roadworthiness-package/com%282012%29380.pdf

ACE and several other organisations who we work with will input to DfT but that alone is not enough. We need EVERYONE to be made aware and bring all possible pressure to bear to ensure this ludicrous ‘proposal’ does not pass into law.

All those who wish to be involved should contact us and we can discuss what is to be done to fight and also address any queries that need resolving.

ACE shall be opening a forum to improve communication in the very near future, we are taking this step because we have very little time to go to other forums to deal with queries due to such a short time frame.

The Details

How can it become law without Consultations taking place?

They have already taken place! The Consultation took place via a EU only website and was, to all intents and purposes purely to do with Roadworthiness testing.

These are the other Consultations that have formed the backbone of this ‘proposal’

Directive 2009/40/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 6 May 2009 on roadworthiness tests for motor vehicles and their trailers (OJ L 141 of 6.6.2009, p.12).

Directive 2000/30/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 6 June 2000 on the technical roadside inspection of the roadworthiness of commercial vehicles circulating in the Community, as amended (OJ L 203 of 10.8.2000, p.1).

Council Directive 1999/37/EC of 29 April 1999 of 29 April 1999 on the registration documents of vehicles (OJ L 138 of 1.6.1999, p.57).

COM(2011) 144 final.

COM(2010) 186 final.

COM(2008) 30 final.

Directive 2008/50/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 21 May 2008 on ambient air quality and cleaner air for Europe (OJ L 152, 11.6.2008, p.1)

http://ec.europa.eu/bepa/pdf/monti_report_final_10_05_2010_en.pdf

“An open consultation was conducted over the Internet from 29 July 2010 to 24 September
2010. The Commission received 9,653 responses from citizens, Member State authorities,
equipment suppliers, test centres, garage associations and vehicle manufacturers.”

This is the Consultation in question:-

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/take-part/public-consultations/pti_en.htm

So how do things change with this ‘proposal’?

Firstly all vehicles other than clearly defined Historic must undergo a roadworthiness test and part of that will ensure that the vehicle meets its original Type Approval, i.e. is totally standard.

“General context
Before a vehicle is allowed to be put on the market, it has to fulfil all the relevant type or individual approval requirements guaranteeing an optimal level of safety and environmental standards. Every Member State has the obligation to register for the first time any vehicle that got the European type-approval on the basis of the “Certificate of Conformity” issued by the
vehicle manufacturer.”

“….The goal of roadworthiness testing is to check the functionality of safety components, the environmental performance and the compliance of a vehicle with its approval.”

Who is this going to affect?

Within the ‘proposal’ it states that: -

This Regulation shall apply to vehicles with a design speed exceeding 25 km/h of the following categories, as referred to in Directive 2002/24/EC, Directive 2007/46/EC and Directive 2003/37/EC:

motor vehicles having at least four wheels, used for the carriage of passengers
and with not more than eight seats in addition to the driver’s seat – vehicle category M1,

motor vehicles used for the carriage of passengers and with more than eight seats, excluding the driver’s seat – vehicle category M2 and M3,

motor vehicles having at least four wheels, normally used for the road carriage of goods and with a maximum permissible mass not exceeding 3 500 kg – vehicle category N1,

motor vehicles used for the carriage of goods and having a maximum permissible mass exceeding 3500kg – vehicle categories N2 and N3,

trailers and semi-trailers with a maximum permissible mass not exceeding 3500 kg – vehicle categories O1 and O2

trailers and semi-trailers with a maximum permissible mass exceeding 3500kg – vehicle categories O3 and O4

two or three-wheel vehicles – vehicle categories L1e, L2e, L3e, L4e, L5e, L6e and L7e

wheeled tractors with a maximum design speed exceeding 40 km/h – vehicle category T5.

Will anyone be exempt from being tested to original standard specification?

Once again within the ‘proposal’ This Regulation shall not apply to:

vehicles of historic interest

vehicles belonging to armed forces, fire services, civil protection, emergency or rescue services

vehicles used by agricultural, horticultural, forestry, farming or fishery undertakings with a maximum design speed not exceeding 40 km/h

specialised vehicles transporting circus and funfair equipment with a maximum design speed not exceeding 40 km/h and only operating on the territory of the Member State.

So Historic vehicles won’t have to worry?

Within the UK we have a system that allows alterations to ANY, including Historic, vehicles whilst still allowing them to retain their identity. Known commonly as the 8 point system and also we have the ability to change body appearance on chassis based vehicles.

However the ‘proposal’ contains a NEW EU wide Historic vehicle definition.

“(7) ‘vehicle of historic interest’ means any vehicle which fulfils all the following conditions :

It was manufactured at least 30 years ago,

It is maintained by use of replacement parts which reproduce the historic components of the vehicle;

It has not sustained any change in the technical characteristics of its main components such as engine, brakes, steering or suspension and

It has not been changed in its appearance;

”

This ties in with the FIVA definition ACE has been warning would become law, rather than being used as a ‘lobbying tool’ as suggested by others.

Why do you keep saying ‘proposal’ rather than Proposal?

Because this is anything but a Proposal which most would assume requires further consultation. This will pass into law very shortly .

The procedure for becoming law is :-

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/0080a6d3d8/Ordinary-legislative-procedure.html

Once forwarded it only takes two readings by EU Parliament and EU Council without objection and it becomes law !!

The ‘proposal’ has already been forwarded to both Parliament and the Council as detailed here :-

http://tinyurl.com/ccjr93n

of document: 13/07/2012
of transmission: 13/07/2012; Forwarded to the Parliament
of transmission: 13/07/2012; Forwarded to the Council ”

This is NOT a drill, we repeat, NOT a drill.

Download a PDF version of this post

Midget Sprite Sump Guard

May be of use to someone.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Midget-Sprite-sumpguard-ideal-for-trials-or-rally-car-/330775794841?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4d03c61499

Closing at the End of November

Multiply, the site host, has announced that the social networking functions of the site will be closing at the end of November. (See the first comment). Thats unfortunate but that's the way it is. I will be giving some thought to the future but meanwhile I recommend the Classical Gas Facebook Page which has been operating for a while now.

As some of you know there is a lot of history stored here and I plan to archive it so it is available in the future. I am not 100% sure of the best way to do this but that's the plan.

Some of you may have stuff stored on your own account that you want to keep. You can download this to your computer using the media locker.

Michael

Marlin Marina based suspension uprights.

Hi all iv twisted my suspension up right on the drivers side. Its the bit the hub is on.

Everything else seems straight its just the up right. Dose anybody have 1 they wish to sell?

Or where can i get hold of 1?

Thanks steven