Posting problems

I'm still trying to work out what I did to be able to send that last message (the first one in weeks!) even if the font was minute.

Andrew

Foot and mouth

Everyone should keep a daily watch here:

http://www.msauk.org/news/newsfrm.htm

to see the official MSA view.

Andrew

Trials Car Wanted

Marlin M type, preferably long chassis and trials prepared.

 

woodall@cwcom.net

Check out the updates to Andrew Browns Site

Visit Andrews site at http://freespace.virginnet.co.uk/andrew.k-brown/motoring/mhome.htm

 

There is some great new stuff on Axles and Diffs and a fantasic piece on "Juniper"

 

Michael

Murray's March Hare cancelled

copied from the Falcon Motor Club community website:-

Murray's March Hare Cancelled

 

I have just had a call from Mike Pearson to say that they have had to cancel the March Hare due to the Foot and Mouth epidemic. Our Kensworth venue is in the area that has been quarantined and it looks as though it will get worse. If you know anybody who was taking part in any way, marshalling or competing could you please let them know?

 

Andrea

Posting Problems, Help wanted

Hi everyone,

 

Andrew B and Simon W are having posting problems. Simon has sent me the following:-

 

I find myself in the strange situation that every time I try to post a message,  the function appears to work OK but the message just dissapears into the ether.   Has anyone else reported this?    I know other people have posted messages since this started happening to me.    I am using MS Explorer as my brower, accessing directly, not via compuserve.

Any ideas??
SIMON

 

Can anyone help?

 

Michael

The Clee?

Does anyone know whether the Clee Hills trial will be run? If there is some definate news perhaps someone could let me know,many thanks, Hazel.

Trailer debate the return

I would add this to the previous trailer section but every time I try to read it it makes my computer hang. As one of the further flung competitors I used to pride myself in driving to and from events in the DAF, aided on one or two occasions by the RAC truck. I would endorse the concern that others have shown for trailer use allowing the use of vehicles only driveable for short distances. My Marlin is pretty comfortable, if cold, to drive for long distances and on the Land’s End I will usually do a round trip of 600 miles back to the trailer. I don’t think it is unreasonable for us to do the other part of our journey in doors. We have tried the hood and decided that the protection it afforded wasn’t worth it so it gets left at home. Finally any event outside of the north requires a stop away of at least one night and the storage capacity of the Marlin does tend to encroach on our expectations of basic hygiene (I have a very large toothbrush but don’t tell anyone else)

Tony

BLAST FROM THE PAST

Photo 21 titled Frank Edkins.

This is not Frank for two reasons:-

1) In 1971 Frank`s car had the reg of JAC166D, which was brought new in 1966 and as I was passenger for Frank in 1971 I know it is not us.

2) As far as I`m awaer Frank`s previus car did not have a perfixe letter.

 

Photo 84

This is Dennis Greenslade in the Autocavan Beetle 1302s

 

Ian Bates

Test Post

Sorry to disturb you Ladies and Gents. This is a test post to see if the line length thing is fixed. Also to see if I can post at all because I both Simpn W and Andrew B have reported problems.

 

btw - I am enjoying the trailer debate - just keep it clean!

btw 2 - A certain class eight driver I know, who does not use a trailer hates Beetles - because we leave our engines running while waiting for sections!

btw3 - I am working at the Boat, Caravan and Leisure Show every day but the last one. If you are visiting drop by and see me for a cup of tea.

 

Michael

Trailer Debate Mk2

The Trailer Debate - Afresh
Discussion list    Previous discussion Next discussion 
  
Started by: Mark Rosten-Edwards Sent: 12/02/2001 12:58 5 Replies
Hi all

Below is the text lifted out of "My Exmoor". I hope the people involved do not mind.

I personally have driven the Escort to and from the meetings. My thoughts surround
 the wheels which take a fair bashing in our sport. Bent rims and cut tyres are all

always managed to return home on tyres I carry in the boot which have usually done just
 the road sections. But what happens when you haven't got any/enough left? Thinking of
it how many of us check the inside tyre walls before returning home? A trailer would
seem a better option for safety alone.

Having said that there is a definite pleasure in driving the Escort still covered in
mud back to London and looking at all the faces in the 4x4s, which will see about as
 much mud as Mika Hakkinen's McLaren will! And certainly never see the delights of
 Crackington, Tillerton, Blue Hills, Simms and the like.

Anyway read on as there are people below who know, and have experienced, an awful
lot more than I have.

Mark

 

From Chris Phillips

This is not strictly a contribution to the 'My Exmoor' discussion; more a response to
Michael's views on trailering cars to and from trials as expressed in his report on the
 Exmoor over on Classical Gas.

Dudley's views on this are well known and respected and carry a lot of weight in a sport
that he has competed in with distinction for many, many years.

Michaels views on Class 8 cars are also valid - but not if you're 6'4" tall!

Both Stuart Harrold and I are around this height. If it weren't for the ability to
trailer to and from one day events, or back from the MCC events I doubt if either of
us would compete.

Stuart's Troll has just about enough leg room for us to operate in for relatively
short periods of time.

But cramp etc sets in after a short time. The Land's End instruction after Hoskin
 '.... turn left on to the A 30 and in approximately 23 miles turn right at ...'
is purgatory.

For the sake of my and my chauffeur's arthritic knees and ankles leave us have the
luxury of returning from trials in some comfort, not cramped up in the car like
 sardines in a can.

On the Manx I tried the passengers position in a Cannon, just prior to the last hill.
 How anybody over 5'4" can operate in those I do not know.
 
From: Michael Leete
 Sent: 03/02/2001 21:55
 3 of 4
 
I think Ed's experiences compared to mine highlight how hard it is or organisers to
cater for the wide range of capabilities of cars and drivers. I know I would really
have struggled in my Beetle on some of the stuff Dudley climbed with ease. I was
interested to hear how long Ed had to wait at the holding control for the first section.
 I should think the last car must have finished pretty late.

A couple of words on Chris's message - hope to find out for myself before I get to old
as I rather fancy a Troll or a Dellow. Only problem is that guy's like David Thompson
 get in while I am still thinking!

Certainly I was pretty comfortable in Dudley's car. It was about 135 miles from The
 New Forest to Barnstaple in conditions hovering around freezing. I was surprised
 but I didn't get cold in the gear I borrowed from Dudley and Fred Gregory. As I
said I was pretty comfortable and went to sleep for most of the journey back!

Michael
 
From: Mike Furse
 Sent: 09/02/2001 20:52
 4 of 4
 
Surely the topic of trailering cars to meetings is worthy of a separate subject,
 rather than added to a report on one specific event.

Although now known as Classic Trials, we are all involved in RELIABILITY Trials. To
me this means, among other things, that the cars should be comfortable enough to
 drive for more than the small mileage that the average one-day event uses.

There are arguments for using trailers to get to and from events. Convenience and
safety being two that spring to mind. The idea of using a trailer because the vehicle
is next-to-impossible to drive on the road strikes me as a very poor argument indeed.
 I drive the car I do because I am comfortable driving it. I don't fit in a Dellow
and I have problems with Trolls, so I don't drive them. I sold my very competitive
Class 8 special because it was too uncomfortable to drive for any distance. The
 next owner did the same!

Dud regularly makes fools of most of his fellow competitors in Class 8 and even
 greater fools of those of us (yes, I use a trailer!) in the other classes.

His car is driven to and from all meetings and his stamina is such that, although
 his passenger may fall asleep on the way home, Dud does not! More power to him.

This argument is important because it is linked to what Mike has to say about the
 difficulties of trying to run an event for cars of such widely differing abilities.
 The supply of suitable vehicles for classes 3,4,5 and 6 is fast running out (the
 newest Escort Mk2 is now over 20 years old!). Competitive vehicles in Class 1 tend
 to be odd to say the least. Class 2 competitors are increasingly concerned about
the severity of sections and do not contest the one-day trials in great numbers.
Against that, some kitcars are now modified almost beyond recognition and a lot
of the things in Class 8 were not designed to be used on the road at all and,
increasingly, organisers are laying out courses to stop them. The fact is that
most of the successful cars tend to arrive on a trailer. Is this because they
 have been developed to the point that they cannot be driven comfortably (or,
indeed, safely) for any distance on the road?

At the moment, organisers do a pretty good job at squaring this particular circle,
 but if things develop too much further some competitors will be demanding that we
 take the events off the public highway altogether as their vehicles are too
uncomfortable to drive on the roads!

The time is fast approaching when we will have to decide which way our sport is going.

Mike Furse.

Add reply   First Previous 1-5 of 5 Next Last 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Leete Sent: 13/02/2001 23:34 1 of 5
Posted on behalf of Duncan Stephens as he has had technical troubles:-
 
Michael,  I have tried to write a note on the Cotswold Clouds and also on the trailer
 debate, but each time it has not displayed the message that I wrote....does the
community have the 90day rule like hotmail?? Could this be the reason.....heard
 of anyone else having problems.  Anyway, I have attached a file on the piece that
I wanted attached to the trailer debate. I kind of waffled on a bit, but am just
trying to provoke a few ideas and some discussion!!  See you Sunday at the PCT??
 I shall be their with the Nova ballasted, but just found out that I have got
Simon Harris in the class too, so may put some more ballast in as I know the
 Nova will not pull second and also it is going to be wet isn't it? Are you doing
 the event?  Duncan I was suppose to be doing a sporting trial the weekend of the
Cotswold Clouds, but it was cancelled due to us not being able to get into the
 field. Instead of watching it rain all day, Dad and I decided to go and watch
the Cotswold Clouds.  I must say that I generally agree with what has been said
 about the use of trailers in getting trials specials to and from events. We do
 have to ask ourselves if this is the image that the sport wishes to portray to
 the general public that our cars are not ideal for travelling on the public highway?
 Think of the safety implications if one of these cramped "specials" was unfortunately
 involved in an accident. I personally feel that the issue of safety is becoming

about their products (the NCAP results). Whilst watching Crooked Mustard and
Merves Swerve on the Cotswold Clouds we did notice that some of the specials

due to the climbing ability of the competitive special, tyre pressure restrictions

 circle. One special appeared to be down right dangerous in our few. On Crooked
 Mustard the front was in the air between the second and third corner, then right
 up the bank after the third corner. Then this same special had them back in the


just think what it is like going over speed bumps!  Ballast is banned in


trials, it is just not quite as severe but these "cars" have to be driven on the road.
 This is not against specials generally, after all we all have a great deal of
admiration for Dudley and his J2, but can some of the class 8 vehicles actually
be called cars? Would many of them be strictly legal if we came across a policeman

protrude beyond a certain point behind the back bumper??!!  Saloon cars are getting
harder and harder to find in a good condition, and as the hills become tougher
 and rougher to stop the specials, it is to the detriment of the saloons as it
 is only doing more damage to them.  This is only really suppose to be thought
 provoking and not against class 8 specials, as I am sure that they have their
 place in classic trials. What would organisers do without then?! I appreciate
 just how very hard it is for organisers to stop the specials whilst not making
it too hard for everyone else. Duncan 
 

From: stuartharrold Sent: 14/02/2001 10:59 2 of 5
This is an interesting subject and I know my regular bouncer has had his say on
 trailers. So now my thoughts as I trailer my Troll to all trials that do not
start at Popham airfield, so why. All the other classics start at least 120 miles
 from home and that means a 120 mile trek home in the dark after the event,
 usually on a Sunday evening. I enjoy driving my Troll around country lanes,
 B roads and the odd rural A road. I do not enjoy driving on Trunk roads and
Motorways, nothing to do with the safety of the Troll but all to do with
vulnerability, I just do not enjoy being 'beaten up' by Arctic trucks as
 they flash by at 70 m.p.h. especially on a dark wet night. Remember even
the MCC has removed the dreaded run down the A303 from the route of the Lands End
 and Exeter trials. Now another reason, cost. I am lucky in that my employer
 provides me with a very comfortable 3 litre saloon and all the fuel that it
uses. So other than income tax it costs me nothing to get to and from events,
a big plus when doing the Northern, Edinburgh, Lands End etc. I can also easily
tow at 60 mph which is a bit faster than the Trolls cruising speed of 45 to 50 mph.
 I am sure some not so fortunate will agree. Another reason, if the worse happens
 and the car breaks down I have transport handy and can get everything home in a
 reasonable time without having to hang around for the RAC or similar. Lastly it
 is very nice to be able to drive home in a warm car in dry clothes listening to
 the radio after a hectic days trialing. I enter classic trials to drive and
compete on trials, not to drive a trials car on a motorway or similar.

I plan to continue in my 'soft' non spirit of classic trials ways for as long as
I have a trailer!!!
Stuart Harrold

From: stuartharrold Sent: 14/02/2001 11:07 3 of 5
Sorry all, I spent considerable time typing a reply only to find only a few
disjointed lines had got onto the system. I cannot be bothered to do it all again.
Stuart Harrold

From: Mike Furse Sent: 14/02/2001 18:36 4 of 5
What's happened to the line lengths in this discussion?  Or is it me!!?  I like
to print out some of these discussions to distribute to friends.
 This is now impossible.         Mike Furse.

From: Michael Leete Sent: 14/02/2001 23:50 5 of 5
Yes this is strange. I know with Duncan's stuff I had a problem because I cut
 and pasted it. However, it all seems to have gone up the chute. I am interested
to see what happens to this post.

Michael

Clee Hills Results

Hi everyone,

 

Simon W has e-mailed me a copy of the Clee Hills Results which I am attaching to this message as an Excel file. They make very interesting reading.

 

Michael

Attachment: CleeHillsResults.xls

My 1st trial, the Launceston

My first trial the Launceston 11th February
Had a really great day yesterday although we didn't do very well.
Off to a fairly ok start, only getting stopped halfway up the 1st and driving straight up the second without even letting the tyres down! I dont know if we scored anything because we didnt even know we were doing it until we saw the numbers on the side of the lane, but it was a good moral booster.
Made a great splash (whoops there goes one side of the front bumper) at the special test 1 and charged up to the B post and straight up the hill with Shirley shouting STOP!! so I reversed back down to the B post to pick up a time, possibly!
It became clear to us after only moving a few feet away from the start on the next few sections that the Sierra wasn't the ideal car to be doing it in, although I did make it to the restart on the one and only I had to do, but that was it and I sat there just making a load of smoke.
Bedrock was cancelled but looking at it I think if we had negotiated the collapsed gully we would have only gone another few feet.
On the 2nd special test we though we were in real trouble on the hairpin when we nearly got completely wedged between the tree and the bank but a 23 point turn got us around eventually, managed to remember to stop at the B post this time.
On to the next section where the marshal was giving us a warning about a bolder sticking up near the top, to which I replied don't worry I probably wont even get around the corner, to which I shot off and didn't even get around the corner, Oh well onto the next section with a bit of passenger, I had a log jammed up under the car giving me about an inch of ground clearance.
The 2nd section at the pig farm wasn't to bad well I moved about a cars length anyway!
Back to the A30 and managed to get lost again. eventually found the next section as it was being closed, didn't manage to get away from the start again then promptly fell off the track and into the woods, there goes the back wing!!
On to Angel steps and after great warnings of bad steps etc we managed to get a 1 with lots of smoke and bouncing. (We could still smell the rubber on the way home).
Managed to take the other side of the front bumper out on the bridge when backing back down, I was too busy listening to the knocking from underneath which turned out to be the anti-roll bar bush that had come adrift.
On to the last few sections, still struggling to keep up with the back markers. Interesting braking characteristic with the missing bush.
But I think I got about a 6 on the 2nd to last one.
Definitely hard work but I think the car held up quite well considering.
Will try harder next time to keep up with the pack as that was definitely the most stressful part.
Think Ill try it in an Escort next time.
Did anybody get any photos of us going through the river or Angel Steps I would love to see them, we were in the blue Sierra No. 3

The Trailer Debate - Afresh

Hi all

Below is the text lifted out of "My Exmoor". I hope the people involved do not mind.

Anyway read on as there are people below who know, and have experienced, an awful lot more than I have.

Mark

 

From Chris Phillips This is not strictly a contribution to the 'My Exmoor' discussion; more a response to Michael's views on trailering cars to and from trials as expressed in his report on the Exmoor over on Classical Gas. Dudley's views on this are well known and respected and carry a lot of weight in a sport that he has competed in with distinction for many, many years. Michaels views on Class 8 cars are also valid - but not if you're 6'4" tall! Both Stuart Harrold and I are around this height. If it weren't for the ability to trailer to and from one day events, or back from the MCC events I doubt if either of us would compete. Stuart's Troll has just about enough leg room for us to operate in for relatively short periods of time. But cramp etc sets in after a short time. The Land's End instruction after Hoskin '.... turn left on to the A 30 and in approximately 23 miles trurn right at ...' is purgatory. For the sake of my and my chauffeur's arthritic knees and ankles leave us have the luxury of returning from trials in some comfort, not cramped up in the car like sardines in a can. On the Manx I tried the passengers position in a Cannon, just prior to the last hill. How anybody over 5'4" can operate in those I do not know.

From: Michael Leete	Sent: 03/02/2001 21:55	3 of 4
I think Ed's experiences compared to mine highlight how hard it is or organisers to cater for the wide range of capabilities of cars and drivers. I know I would really have stuggled in my Beetle on some of the stuff Dudley climbed with ease. I was interested to hear how long Ed had to wait at the holding control for the first section. I should think the last car must have finished pretty late. A couple of words on Chris's message - hope to find out for myself before I get to old as I rather fancy a Troll or a Dellow. Only problem is that guy's like David Thompson get in while I am still thinking! Certainly I was pretty comfortable in Duley's car. It was about 135 miles from The New Forest to Barstaple in conditions hovering around frezing. I was surprised but I didn't get cold in the gear I borrowed from Dudley and Fred Gregory. As I said I was pretty comfortable and went to sleep for most of the journey back! Michael

From: Mike Furse	Sent: 09/02/2001 20:52	4 of 4
Surely the topic of trailering cars to meetings is worthy of a separate subject, rather than added to a report on one specific event. Although now known as Classic Trials, we are all involved in RELIABILITY Trials. To me this means, among other things, that the cars should be comfortable enough to drive for more than the small mileage that the average one-day event uses. There are arguments for using trailers to get to and from events. Convenience and safety being two that spring to mind. The idea of using a trailer because the vehicle is next-to-impossible to drive on the road strikes me as a very poor argument indeed. I drive the car I do because I am comfortable driving it. I don't fit in a Dellow and I have problems with Trolls, so I don't drive them. I sold my very competitive Class 8 special because it was too uncomfortable to drive for any distance. The next owner did the same! Dud regularly makes fools of most of his fellow competitors in Class 8 and even greater fools of those of us (yes, I use a trailer!) in the other classes. His car is driven to and from all meetings and his stamina is such that, although his passenger may fall asleep on the way home, Dud does not! More power to him. This argument is important because it is linked to what Mike has to say about the difficulties of trying to run an event for cars of such widely differing abilities. The supply of suitable vehicles for classes 3,4,5 and 6 is fast running out (the newest Escort Mk2 is now over 20 years old!). Competitive vehicles in Class 1 tend to be odd to say the least. Class 2 competitors are increasingly concerned about the severity of sections and do not contest the one-day trials in great numbers. Against that, some kitcars are now modified almost beyond recognition and a lot of the things in Class 8 were not designed to be used on the road at all and, increasingly, organisers are laying out courses to stop them. The fact is that most of the successful cars tend to arrive on a trailer. Is this because they have been developed to the point that they cannot be driven comfortably (or, indeed, safely) for any distance on the road? At the moment, organisers do a pretty good job at squaring this particular circle, but if things develop too much further some competitors will be demanding that we take the events off the public highway altogether as their vehicles are too uncomfortable to drive on the roads! The time is fast approaching when we will have to decide which way our sport is going. Mike Furse.

Trailers, Debates, Community Membership and Stuff

As you will see, the issue of trailers has prompted some keen debate. This of course is what the community is all about. Members have strong feelings and are airing them in a forceful but civilised way. We may or may not agree with the views but we respect each poster is entitled to their opinion. Either way the community provides a valuable sounding board and quite a few influential MCC/ACTC committee members look in on the posts. So we are influential and I certainly believe member’s views posted here had some influence on The Lands End staying at Easter.

However, this brings me back to an old chestnut, that of real names. The participants in the trailer debate are either using their real names or we (regular competitors) know who they are. This means that if they go too far they know they will have to look the other person in the eye in the queue for breakfast at Tintinhull or wherever.

If you look at the community rules, you will see it is mandatory for members to either use their real names, use a nickname so that regular triallers know who you are and/or have an e-mail address that we can contact you on.

This can be done in your member profile so those only members can see it.

I see we have new members who do not comply with these conditions. If you are in this category please do not post to the community until you go to your member profile and use your full real name, or a nickname so that we (or at least I) know who you are and use a bona fide e-mail address. Otherwise, I will have to block your posts.

Michael

Community Manager

Ford Escort for sale

Not that anyone would want a Ford Escort Mk 11 but I have two cars requiring new homes.

 

1/ Car is a four door Mk 11. It has no engine,gearbox or interior heater or MOT. This lovely

vehicle does have new front ewings and a sound body. It requires the missing items a large bag of enthusiasm. It is for FREE to any one that wants it.

 

2/ The second car is a two door Mk 11, automatic (large gearbox tunnel). The body has had no welding and the front turrets are like new etc. It has done 43 000 miles from new and wishes to start a new life as a competion car. Vehicle currently MOT and can be driven away.

Routecard.org

A NEW TRIALS SITE AT LAST!

Hi!

 

Just to let you all know, I just been to this new trialing website.  The site looks pretty good, even have a live video section! 

 

Also the site contains up to date trialing results and motor sports news.  Its about time we had another trialing website with new fresh ideas.

 

I been told that the site is design to support MCC/ACTC and other local events.  Routecard are even doing free advertising...

 

www.routecard.org is the address.

 

 

Regards

 

David

 

Exmoor Trial Results

John Barthram kindly e-mailed me a copy of the Exmoor Trial results which I have posted in "Files". To read them :-

 

1. Open the "Files" Menu which you should be able to see on the left hand side of the screen.

2. "Exmoor Results" is an Excel file which you should be able to see - if you can't then opon the Michael Leete folder first.

3. You will need to download the file which will take about a minute. You can save it for future reference if you like.

4. btw - organisers can easily post their regs - final instructions - results etc here themeselves. You don't need to send them to me first.

 

Michael

 

ps - I think Dudley would have won if he had a decent bouncer!

Burlington Arrow - What it it?

Hi

Does anybody know what the Burlington Arrow is? Maybe have a picture?

Why was it excluded at Tintinhull?

As an aside we receive Provisional Result but not Final Results. Is there a reason? Probably time I assume! But it would be nice to know.

 

Mark