We have lived at the end of a green lane for nearly thirty years.During this time motorised traffic has come and gone, including the odd Dellow. I walk my dogs on the same lane and generally think that the odd horse, bike and car helps to keep the track clear.
However in the last three years or so we have had the odd group of 4x4s use the route as well....so be it, live and let live etc. I will now apoligise to all 4x4 owners in the club, as I do not want to paint you all with the same brush.
This is what has happened this year. Back in the spring after yet another very wet week, a large group of road registered but non standard 4x4s came down the green lane. They had V8 engines, large wheels, snorkels, etc etc.
Due to the very soft conditions and going up and down the track several times some of them got well and truly stuck, leaving in their wake holes big enough to hide a Dellow in!
The council put up signs closing the green lane on a temporary basis to vehicles,so that it could be repaired during this summer. They have done this in the past.
The following info has been passed on to me, and I would be interested in members' comments;
Due to a serious accident involving a horse and rider, the council have closed off with locked gates this green lane. They have quoted a judge's decision from the west country who was quoted as saying that due to willful damage to the green lanes used by 4x4 users the councils are responsible for the right of way, and have the right to stop their use by vehicles!!!.
Can this be correct? Has the law changed?
I will contact my parish council for their response and let you know.
The lane is now very overgrown, and the damage has not been repaired. The grass is extremely long and in many places the divets from vehicle and pedestrian traffic. I, like many other people, have stopped using the track as it is now basically impassible - partly as a result of the 4x4 damage, but mainly from the lack of use!
Looking forward to all comments as I feel very strongly that this track should be kept open for everyone to use with care and respect.
As usual, a few have spoilt it for everybody.
I have been Green laning loads of times in my LandCruiser &
ReplyDeleteit has never ceased to amaze me for some other 4x4 users appear to enjoy
damaging the ground!! Its defiantly the minority but how its stopped who knows.
Cheers
john
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The notes on the gates suggest tempory, however they look very permanent to me.I have contacted the council and have asked for a hard copy reply.
ReplyDeletesounds to me like a [possibly justified in some eyes] knee-jerk re-action from those within the council departments. In my experience ''Councils''.....or at least, those working within them, can be very quick to 'try it on' in all manner of areas...... perhaps they are hoping the mention of 'judge' and 'court' will discourage folk from making too much of a song 'n dance over the affair? Councils always need a thorough 'challenging' in whatever they do. Perhaps what 'we' really need in this day and age are what exist in Germany? A sort-of ''eco'' police? or 'warden' whose job it is to monitor anything other than single vehicle movement..[or create a 'licenced' vehicle usage?].....since the lanes will be Public Highways, then all vehicles must comply with the law.....and a warden with a Crown Warrant would be empowered to enforce restitution for damage caused.. After all, what happens when a vehicle causes damage to the structure/environs of any other road? I beleive in Germany, for example, if British Armed Forces vehicles on exercise get stuck, and need ether self, or assisted recovery, then they are also required to 'make good' teh ground where they got stuck.....and woe betide one if one chops down a tree to aid recovery!
ReplyDeleteHi. Even though a 'judge' may have had his view published, this will undoubtedly be derived from a judicial decision or from a decision at first instance in the civil courts. It may be that the council are mistakenly following a direction and in so doing believe that they are are acting within their powers. Either way, a council has finite, prescribed powers and should they act outside of such powers they act in an 'ultra vires' manner. This is challengeable by Judicial Review, but leave must be sought from the courts to pursue such an action. Such an action is costly. Hope this helps. B. Beech LL.B (Hons)
ReplyDeleteIts a shame we do not have somebody like you here.The council is made up of local land owners or their relitives, and their decision making in my eyes, is a case of as long as it suits us then everbody else should accept it. A very good example was giving planning for a Telephone mast very close to my house and others without any consultation with the affected people. I will be very interested with their answer regarding the right of way. I will keep you informed.
ReplyDeleteYou do no say whether it was the Parish or District Council who have erected the notices. The Parish Council does not have the power to close a Right-of-Way, even on a temporary basis. If the District Council wishes to apply a TRO to the lane, they must at least display notices on site announcing their plan, and ask for comments, just like a planning application.
ReplyDeleteEven when they do close a lane to traffic, they certainly cannot put locks across a right-of-way, that is definately illegal. Even the land owner cannot lock a gate across his own right-of-way.
As Brod says, a judge may have made a ruling elsewhere, but that can only be used as precedent in court, not as carte blache to impose orders elsewhere. Go in person to your next parish council meeting and ask to see the paperwork.
My understanding is that not all green lanes are in fact Byways (Public Rights of Way Open for all Traffic BOATS). I assume this one is. I live in an area that regretfully has few hills but plenty of Byways, some with fords. Occasionally they are subject to TRO's (temporary restriction orders), primarily for the track to be repaired or to recover from excess use (normally 4x4 but often farmer's heavy tractors). When a track(road) becomes unusable, I believe a maintenance order can be served on the council to repair the track(road). This is something that the councils do not make common knowledge for obvious reasons.
ReplyDeleteWhether they like it or not, councils have a responsibilty to maintain all PRW's to a usable standard. It would appear though, that councils can also exercise permanent closures although I'm not sure on the legality of this. This link may help but Google Public Rights of Way/Byway for lots more info.
www.leics.gov.uk/index/environment/countryside_nature/paths/rights_of_way_guide.htm
Nigel Jones
The paperwork on the gates talks of temp closure and is from the district council and has been their since May time. However the gates which have been set in concrete and have had an area of tarmac spread around them. Also, they have set the main gate slightly to one side to leave a roped-off clear gap for walkers/horses (but not a vehicle), which is odd as the temporary closure applies to vehicle, walkers and horses (further suggesting that they are planning ahead for change of useage from green lane to public footpath or similar?) If these gates are temporary there has been no notice on site and I will consider them be a total waste of taxpayers' money if they are going to be removed at a later date.
ReplyDeleteThe only change in the law recently was the NERC act. This had several parts but none that would be applicable here unless the greenlane was a Road Used As Public path which has now become a Restricted Byway under the NERC legislation. Resticted byways do not have vehicular rights.
ReplyDeleteThe Highways Authority have always had the power to put a Traffic Regulation Order on any right of way. Northamptonshire County Council use TROs to close lanes that present a health and safety threat.
If you can tell me the location of the lane I will do some research and find out more about it. I may also be able to mobilise resources to help save the lane for all to use.
I am a 4x4 owner and enjoy the occasional, responsible outing onto Byways Open to All Traffic and Unclassified County Roads. The responsible face of this activity is the Green Lane Association and they are now actively encouraging members to report irresponsible behaviour like the group you mention to the police and local authority. I am also a classic trialer and know that the law will not discriminate between me in my Skoda and me in my 4x4, they will ban both if the greens and antis get their way.
If anyone sees 4x4s being used in a manner that is irresponsible, on or off of a right of way I would encourage them to take the registration, get pictures if possible and report it to the police and local highways authority.
I took up Nigel's advise and checked our parish website. Attached is website page that in fact has a picture of the very lane we are talking about. It seems from the blurb that the council have the right to temporarily close the lane to 4x4s but NOT walkers as in this case. Will definitely follow it up with the council. http://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/environment/countryside/access/Byway+damage.htm It looks to me they can keep the green lane locked most of the year and only allow access when they allow it!!!
ReplyDeleteThanks for the offer, perhaps you could read the south cambs blurb, and give me your comments. I have to be very P.C. on this subject as I am also fighting for gates on a PRIVATE road directly outside my house to stop hare coarsing and other illegal goings on, all in the same small Hamlet. Due to the closure of the green lane, people are still coming through this area but are going down private roads to get round the closed green lane. Ross
ReplyDeleteHi again. There is some interesting stuff in this discussion. Have only just accessed and will respond more fully tomorrow. Brod Beech
ReplyDeleteRoss has sent me some pictures of the lane and the gate which I have posted here http://classicalgas.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!9D45C19A8B93429F!2991/
ReplyDeleteHi folks look at the pics....Could this happen at the start of our classic sections.
ReplyDeletedo I sense a rise in the sales of bolt croppers?
ReplyDeleteHaving had another visit from the hare coarsers in their illegal 4x4s. I am confident that it they want to use the lane the lock will not get in the way.Having said that I walked down there today.... good luck to them its very badly damaged..and in the D.Cs defence it is very dangerous.
ReplyDeleteCould this happen at the start of our classic sections.
ReplyDeleteWell the answer is YES! Unless we do something about it. The Green lane Association and The Trail Riders Fellowship are actively fighting closures like this one all over the country. The Ramblers Association, The green lobby and many Nimbys have been getting councils to use TROs (Traffic Regulation Orders) to close lanes all over the place.
The NERC Act also gave National Parks Authorities the power to put TROs on rights of way. This is an interesting one as National Park Authorities are not an elected body. In principle the Peak District National Park Authority could TRO every vehicular right of way in the park. That would stop the Edinburgh. GLASS and the TRF are about to Challenge the North York Moors park authority on some TROs they have put on lanes in their park. If this legal challenge fails the other National Park Authorities will be able to put TROs on with us unable to do anything about it.
LARA is the organisation that represents our rights, but only via the MSA. We all need to be far more aware of this threat and actively fighting if we want to keep our sport.
Look here for more info
http://www.glass-uk.org/
http://www.trf.org.uk/
Graham
LARA has already spent a lot of money fighting the North Yorks TRO's.
ReplyDeleteBut you should bear in mind that the only legal challenge that they can raise is that the wording on the legal documents is not correct. The judge might rule that the TRO's are not legal for that reason, but they might also just tell the National Park people to go back and draft them properly. Could this happen at the foot of our favourite sections? Possibly.
Is it likely? No, because your organisers spend a lot of their valuable free time working with the people on the ground to ensure that they are on our side.
Just had a chat with a member of the team at Cambridge.
ReplyDeleteHe says they do not reconise green lanes and considers the one in question as a byway.
They have used a TRO to close the lane,and he suggests it will be opened for use in the summer months only ( perhaps only a few weeks)
Due to the damage and budgets it may take several years to return the lane into its original condition.
In not so many words it is going to be very difficult for any vehicle to use this lane again!!!!!
Your man at County Hall is right about the "Green Lane". The term has no meaning in law.
ReplyDeleteUnsurfaced Rights of Way are either Footpaths; Bridleways; Restricted Byways; Byways Open to All Traffic (BOAT's); or County Roads. The first four come under the aegis of the Rights of Way department at your local County Council, the last under the Highway Authority. Bluffers Guide to Rights of Way tip:- Avoid using the term "Geen Lane" its a good clue that the person concerned knows little about the legal status of a R-o-W.
I get your point, however the road is called Little green Lane!!!!
ReplyDeleteIt looks like becauce of a few idiots the byway can not be used by me or anybody else.
It will be interesting to see if the M.C.C. and other clubs will be able to use byways after they have been kocked behind gates.
Cambridge C.C. say you can have a key ONLY if you need access to YOUR land.