Here is a thought for all you competitors out there.There have been many ideas thrown about to reduce the ability to 'climb' a hill, which should initially i believe be aimed at class eight competitors.Whilst trials is supposed to be a budget motorsport,so surely an easy way to close up class eight would be to ban wheels above 15 inch in diameter.
I am not a competitor in this class but i believe these large tyres cost something in the region of 짙100,a figure not condusive of attracting new talent to the class.
Also on most of the entry forms you get you are asked about whether or not your car has forced induction or not, so how come a supercharged car stays in the same class----what was the point of asking said question!! All i have to do now is get the zetec fully mapped in the escort now and i too will have 150+ bhp .If any one has any thoughts lets have a reply.
I would agree with your idea that 15" wheels on Class 8 would lessen the competitiveness of some of the Class 8's. However with regards the supercharger, it does change the class some cars would compete in. Class 4 for example is limited to 1300cc. If a supercharger is added to a 1300cc Beetle, IMP or Skoda, it is regarded to be equivalent to adding 40% cc's to the engine size, and the car would move into Class 6. Would hae been nice to do though...
ReplyDelete...and whoever said you were good looking?? See you on the Camel.
ReplyDeletePosted on behalf of Keih Sanders Michael, Along with others I'm having lots of problems trying to "post" messages on the Community Message Board. Would you please try posting my reply (see below) to "Oversize wheels/Superchargers" on my behalf. I fear these technical problems may kill-off some of the good discussions that we have enjoyed in the past. As Bill Gates doesn't seem to be getting his act together do you think it's worth considering a new host ? (I will give Bill a bit longer, but I guess we will have to find somewhere else if things don't improve soon - Michael)
ReplyDeleteRegards,
Keith Reply.... I take you point that to be competitive in Class 8 you need some pretty sophisticated machinery and that large wheels are a definite advantage. I can see nothing wrong with having a class that allows this but I guess it does make things more difficult for the organisers who need to choose sections that are suitable for all classes. I don't believe that this discourages new competitors as there are plenty of other classes to choose from and we've seen from recent performances that you can do some pretty amazing things with a front wheel drive car! Something to consider.... perhaps in a tie-break situation the winner is decided by smallest wheel size first before moving on to smallest engine size? Keith.
As a competitor in class 8 I would support the move to maximum wheel size - i.e. 15inch diameter. This would , I think, produce closer competition. As I built my special when the changes to class 8 rules were being put forward before - 1997 as I remember - the changes were to improve the appearance etc. - my car has a windscreen etc. These changes were never implemented so the car is not competitive in ACTC type trials, it does do reasonably OK in MCC events when it finishes! The modifications necessary to run large diameter wheels would be be expensive as would the tyres. Perhaps the class does need reviewing and economics could be taken into account - our sport is becoming costly enough, especially for newcomers. Or do we accept that class 8 is the wealthier elite, rather than the chance for the home special builder to go trialling? Might get a few more Trolls out of retirement too! Joe
ReplyDeletePosted on behalf of Simon Woodall:- I too have attempted to post a message and failed. I did not try too hard, having seen the notes from other people. I was not using the Compuserve browser, so that cannot be blamed. Young Gates definately has a problem. What I was trying to say, in reply to the Large Wheels debate was................. There is a simpler solution to the problem than introducing restrictions to Class 8 that might just have an unforeseen knock-on effect. Those that feel there is something slightly immoral about the big Michelins should look more closely at the results of trials that have imposed tyre pressure restrictions. You will see that these large tyres do not like being run at high pressures. A simple, easy to police solution, that still offers competitors a choice and gives organisers flexibility to match cars to courses. If 18" wheels are such a prerequisite to success, how come Mr. Marfell is doing so well? I am also slighty amused to note that only one class 8 competitor has bother to express an opinion in this debate, and I am therefore tempted to ask "whats it got to do with the rest of you anyway?" of course the answer to that might just be that like me, they cannot post anything at the moment. BTW, who is jcb anyway? I thought we were supposed to be on real names here. Reply ends. Simon Woodall
ReplyDeleteTyre pressure restrictions are the easiest way to control class 8 in my view rather than banning anything. This is the way that the sporting trials guys have gone and I gather that imposing a minimum pressure of 5lbs had quite an effect but I don't think they carry much ballast compared to class 8 machines - I would guess that 15 - 20 lbs would be needed for to achieve much effect. What has this got to do with me as a class 4 competitor? If organisers don't use pressure restrictions then the quest to stop class 8 by choosing harder sections alone affects us all.
ReplyDeleteI have tried to respond to this several times but my message has never got thru the system. So here goes again, if this gets thru I will then post my thoughts.
ReplyDeleteStuart Harrold
Well, surprise surprise, I got thru the system. I have never had the 'beta' in my address BUT I have recently reinstated my hotmail account that had become dormant due to lack of use. Perhaps this was the secret!
ReplyDeleteI followed this subject with great interest as a class 8 Troll pilot. I am happy with my 15 inch wheels and where required tyre pressure limits to stop me climbing everything (I wish!)rather than rougher and rougher hills that smash my car to bits. In fact I like tyre pressure limits as it reduces punctures and wheel changing, I am all for an easy life/trial. But I do have one problem, its not easy to get hold of 15 inch tyres, Colway have stopped supplying them as they cannot get the casings for remoulding. The sporting trials boys seem to have problems getting a constant supply. Has anyone ideas where we can get a 15 inch tyre at say 짙20 to짙25 each?
I must say I had also noticed that big wheels do not do very well when there are tyre pressures. As for what the minimum pressures for class 8 should be. I usually run my Troll, fully loaded for a trial at 18 p.s.i. on the road (165x15 tyres). If I have to run at 15 p.s.i. I will not bother to pump up for say a 4 mile road section as it will not affect the cars handling. I really notice a lack of traction when I am required to use pressures of 12 p.s.i. or above. But I do not use ballast so that may be the answer for me if mandatory minimums become the norm.
As for superchargers I have no problem with them in class 8 but not sure about other cars/classes.
Interesting stuff, lets all talk some more.
Stuart Harrold
Thanks for your replies on my thoughts.The brain has been ticking away after seeing that some class 9 competitors would like to see a limit change to wheels whilst others would not. How about restructuring class 9 with a 9a for saw cars limited to 14 inch(as15's seem to be getting more diffcult to find at the right price) or 15 inch wheels and a 9b for anything goes.9a could also have a engine limit such as 1600cc. PS sorry to miss you on the Camel Giles but we are busy building the housePPS I just know!!congrat. for the class win JCB
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