Having just secured at a vey reasonable cost, a 205 GTX 1400cc, I wish to tap into the wealth of experiance within the group. In an attempt at the forthcoming Northern Trial.
Raising the rear end of the wee pug should be "relatively" simple. however can anyone provide a simple solution for the front end, ie. standard springs +2" if such a thing exists??
Sump and tank guards have been aquired, any other protection required?
The wheels are currently 14" , can any one advise on the most suitable tyre for this event/ car?
Think most other items have been thought through, but any assistance greatfully recieved.
Mark Simpson
Dumfries Scotland
My understanding is that the FIRST thing you need to do is to sort-out the diff which is, I believe, the "achilles heel" of the 205 for trialling. All the 205 drivers that I've spoken to have done something, but not all are prepared to tell you what that something is - except that it does involve replacing the standard diff. Sorry I can't be more specific but I'm just warning you that the standard diff may not survive its first trial! Andrew
ReplyDeleteBrilliant!! Another local entering the world of Classic Trialling. We could do with as many as possible in this neck of the woods. Mark, how about entering Class 0 if this is your first trial. I am sure you would enjoy it and we would look forward to you entering. You never know, we could see the possibilities of a Classic Trial in the Scottish Borders. How about it? After all, the VSCC run the Scottish Trial there. Myke Pocock Fell Side Auto Club.
ReplyDeleteHi Mark, I agree with Andrew's comments on the pug diff ,but as this sounds like it will be your first trial in the car I would suggest you 'play it by ear', and if it breaks then fix it,if it doesn't keep enjoying it!Basically the harder you drive it the more maintenance the car will require especially in fwd. I dabbled in fwd for a couple of years with a maestro and found the best tyres were 175 x 14 colway CMT remoulds which are available for about £15 a piece. As for the front suspension you could either try specially manufactured springs which may be a bit expensive, or some prefer to fit springs inside springs,alternatively you could use spacers to adjust the spring seats,provided you use the original mountings.Hope this may be of use and good luck. nick
ReplyDeleteMost Class 7 Marlins run 185x14 tyres and Colway CMT remoulds are currently the most-favoured all-surface tyre, although I'm not sure whether they're available in sizes that fit under Peugeot wheelarches. Andrew PS - No laughs from those Marlin drivers who know me (too) well, especially those who were out on Exmoor on Sunday.
ReplyDeleteMark, If you do have problems with the diff breaking and don't want to have any engineering work done then I suggest you try using Red Line Heavy Shockproof Gear Oil. It's exspensive and looks a bit like pink custard, but it worked for me in a Golf GTI for several years. Good luck on your first event. Tim.
ReplyDeleteI can also recommend Red Line Heavy Duty Shockproof Gear Oil - worth every penny. I've used it for years and occasionally remove the diff, inspect it, and put it straight back 'cos it's still fine despite all the abuse it gets. Andrew
ReplyDeletewhere can this redline stuff be obtained? through any MCC member's businesses? is it useable in transaxles?
ReplyDeleteAlistair. You can get it from Demoon Tweeks. Any car business can get it through a distributor. Neil Bray got mike for me. He and Simon Robson used it in their Skodas and reckond it tripled the life of the diff. I have it in my Beetle. Yes transaxle OK. But when you look at it you will see there are lots of different types and you have to choose the right one. Michael
ReplyDeletePut "Red Line Oil" into Google, go to their website, then look for UK distributors. There are three, including the dreaded Demon Tweeks. I think there is actually only one HEAVY DUTY shockproof gear oil, but I stand to be corrected. Andrew
ReplyDeleteI have only found the one 'heavy duty' oil on the 'net so far......does the original oil have to be thoroughly flushed out, or is th eredline stuff tolerant to previous oil residues?
ReplyDeletethanks...what a prompt reply!
ReplyDeleteHi Mark, the best tyres are colway remoulds 175 x14 fitted with 13 inch tubes to stop the valves turning. Dont worry about the diff on the first event because if it wont take the punnishment of 1 event you would be wasting 짙50 of oil in a badly worn gearbox. Remove every last pound of weight from the rear of the car inc the rear seats ( I believe allowed on the P205 ) and carry nothing but a small scissor jack and a couple of good footpumps, no big heavy toolkit. Then if you get the bug for trialing, start spending.
ReplyDeletewhat no rear seats in a 205 who thought that one up ? any way if you give me a ring on 01579 320473 or 370591 i will tell how i have prepaird mine allthough you will need lots more cc.s to even have a fighting chance
ReplyDeleteI was not popular with the scrut. for having the back seat folded forward so I wouldn't remove it! This was a few years back (LE 95?) so things may have changed. I was running a brown Samba around that time which behaved really well on Stomils. John.
ReplyDeleteround about the same time I got 'advised' on my Skoda's back seat...one of the folding rear portions had actually totally come adrift as I'd set off from home, so I left it behind..and just stuck a bit of black vynyl over the gap with tape..scroot wasn't too happy....I think that year it was purge -of-the-week? yours wasn't the Samba which had a totally perpex rear end? with the bodywork surrounding the 'window' simply painted on?
ReplyDeleteAlastair, Yes, the very same. The upper 3/4 of the tailgate was perspex and the lower 1/4 was aluminium; I painted it so that it looked like a normal tailgate (from a distance!) and pop-rivetted it. It couldn't really be done on a 205 because that has more complex details. The Samba's tailgate was basically flat and rectangular. It probably saved 15-20 pounds in the wrong place once the hinges, lock, seal were removed as well. The Samba was brilliant with the 1124 which had just the right power/torque that the Stomils generally never lost traction. But it took 1360 to get it through the mire at the top of Crackington! John.
ReplyDeleteit just goes to show how things have moved on 2000 something CC is just about enough to be compedative in class 1 although i do know one 1300 citroen doing quite well
ReplyDeleteWith reference to the rear seats: Blue book M 6.3.4 states"Be equipped with the same number of seats as intended by the manufacturer" There is one car that has done two events without seats and this is under discussion by the technical panel but as scrutineer I would put lack of seats as a fault
ReplyDeletecan I offer a suggestion here? depends on how one defines a "seat?" is it the bit one sits on? or should it include a back rest? however, I suggest junking the production rear seat and backrest, replacing witha slab of foam, perhaps painted or covered with some pretty material....another slab stuck to a fixed ally rear bulkhead? Try and get matching or complimentary materials for these two lumps...the scrutineers are worrying about appearance! of course this may only work for FWD......?? does one ACTUALLY need a boot floor? re 205's? why not simply obtain a rear skin, weld it in solid? anyone make lightweight rear light clusters?
ReplyDeleteYe Olde Stomil tyres are hard(!) to get these days...but they have a brand called Kormoran which looks good...quite a deep centre tread, lots of shoulder sypes....Stomil now owned by Michelin....anybody have any experience of the Kormoran tyre?..(I have one on a freebie skoda!)
ReplyDeleteIsn't the lack of seats enough to move a car into Class 7 for outside permitted limits?
ReplyDeleteI thought that the rules said that you could not modify anything unless the rules specifically state that they can be modified. A few years ago one competitior was made by the MCC to replace the glass in his windows and put back his steel doors and refit the trim in his Volvo. I was not aware that the rules had changed since then.
ReplyDeleteClassic Trials cars are supposed to retain their all their seats. The question of rear seats in a 205 only comes about because the 205 T16 comes without rear seats. The question under debate by ACTC therefore is whether the T16 is a part of the production range, or a homologation special. Replacing glass with perspex is a no-no, except in the tailgate of a hatchback, where such a change is allowed as the hatch qualifies as the boot lid for the purposes of M6.3.6 The Kormoran Impulser IS on the tyre list. I thought this strand was supposed to be helping a newcomer get started. The discussion seems to have had the opposite effect as he has not entered the Northern. So my advice to any newcomer reading this strand is that the most important piece of preparation is to Fill In The Entry Form. If you wait until you have the perfect car you will never get started because someone is always coming up with a new idea. Try an event before you do too much - after all you might not like it and then you've spent all the money for nothing.
ReplyDeleteif he contacts Myke Pocock or Diane Veevers he may still get a late entry? there's always class0? perhaps there's a problem with the car? Simon...as a point of rule...re perpex windows? I'm aware that front screen and rear window in perspex is a no-no...but what about side windows?
ReplyDeleteHi Mark,
ReplyDeleteThe MCC has a Class "O" which is a good point of entry into Trials and would suit the car you have with only a few modifications. This you may already know. However the insider information is that you may still be able to get an entry into this years Lands End Trial in Class "O" (entries for the main event have already closed). For more details follow the links to MCC webb site. Regards Jonathan
gosh, Mark....entering the Land's End would enable you to do your very own 'Le JOG?' are you going to have a go at the Northern....even in class 0?
ReplyDeleteHi everyone, I havent fallen off the face of the planet. Work, family commitments in London and Servicing on the Wyedean Rally last weekend ment that an already tight schedule to prepare the wee pug was shortened to an evening and one day, precluding an entry. The guards were completed but the front suspension mods are taking a bit longer than anticipated, dont ask about the rear axel !*$%. Allan, my moveable ballast and I did make the Northern Trial, and marshalled the Forest Yump section. I was at the start with the "Ballast" at the restart. The section completed, we sped off to Sandale to view the "transformed " section ( thoughts on this on a separate thread please). Managed to capture Andrew Martin's climb on video and will attempt to post it ( help reqired). We both had a great day out, and will continue the Pug build with a view to a trip further south in the near future. As to the seat saga, if all the componemants are within the vehicle and merley folded as they are designed to be will this keep the scruits happy?? I intended mounting the wheels as far forward as poss. behind the front seats? Blue Book here I come.
ReplyDeleteyes the rear suspension can be a simple job to raise or sounds like the one i allways get its the one that needs the biggest sledg hammer and then all the splines fall out as far as the front goes front struts and springs from a 405 diesel will give you a 1 "+ lift depending on balast
ReplyDeletePity about not having enough time to prep your Pug, but thanks for running an excellent section on the Northern Classic. The first bit was rough enough with deep ruts but then when it got steeper and full of loose sharp rocks I thought we had met our match. Luckily we kept going, plenty of revs and ignore the crashing noises from underneath seemed to work as a strategy. Looking back down from the top it looked impossible. Thanks again for marshalling. John in the Dutton.
ReplyDelete