I know we had this conversation quite while ago but some new info might help...
Im well on with a 66 Moke rebuild and should be finished within the next few weekes. I had a conversation with the owners of the Moke rights when I went to get some parts last week about whether it was a comercial or a car. John Lloyd from M-Parts told me that some were comercial and some were not. The commercial ones were marketed by Austin & Morris trucks and had different badges and were usually white. Most of the others were green. All the english mokes were on 10 inch wheels.
So after having the conversation with him - Do you think I could use one?
Cheers
John
I'm no expert but weren't the Mokes built on a Minivan
ReplyDeletefloorpan that is 3" longer than a saloon? If so all Mokes are derived from a
commercial vehicle, not a car, so are not strictly legitimate. But any entry
should not be summarily turned away so let's not get too picky. There are
plenty of cars that bend the definitions to a greater extent than being 3" too
long so good luck to you, mate.
TTFN
John
A Mini Traveller was the same as a Minivan but with side windows, so the Moke must be car derived.
ReplyDeleteI agree the Traveller is a van with windows but I don't
ReplyDeletefollow the logic that the Moke must therefore be a car. I recall the van battery
was under the load floor, just behind the drivers seat but can't remember where
it was in the traveller or the Mk 1 Mini. I'd guess that to get the people in,
the battery would have to go in the boot. My point is that if there is a battery
box in the tail of your Moke it suggests that it is derived from a passenger
carrying vehicle rather than a commercial vehicle. Good news?
John
Commercial basis or not, the rule that stops Moke's is the lack of Doors or Body Sides. Took some finding in the "new" Blue Book, C 9. Cheers Pete
ReplyDeletewould a moke not be acceptable in class 7? or class 8? seeing as there are quite a few cars out there without doors, and vestigial sidebody panels......[measure a Cannon as in another thread?]
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteI guess its Historic Road rallies instead then
Thanks for the info.
John
A moke was running in Class O on MCC trials events for a few events 3 or 4 years back. Went up for sale at a high price and was never seen again. As I remember it had the largest toolbox ever seen bolted in place of the rear seats where it could give maximum benefit to the traction on the driven wheels. Or maybe not . Don't know if a Moke would be accepted in Class 0 or if the inability to meet the min side height means they're out for good?
ReplyDeleteCheck out the picture of these two Mokes that competed on the 2007 Ikley Trial
ReplyDeletehttp://hoits.smugmug.com/gallery/2894180_2zhdB#155637947_Bi4Uu-A-LB
The Ilkley accept Mokes as they have had one or two
ReplyDeletefor the last couple of events. Mind you, I think they were running tyres that
were not exactly to ACTC regs so maybe they were just allowed to run. Perhaps
someone else knows more. Surely a tool box in the rear seat is of no use at all
as the vehicle is front wheel drive? Better to bolt it to the front
bumper!!!!
Is a Moke an open car or a convertible with a
ReplyDeletecanvas roof and canvas doors?
As we are required to keep the siluette of the car,
might we not be allowed to replace the canvas doors with something more
solid. Mokes were available with 10" (english and some early
australian production), 12" (portugese ones), and 13" (most australian
ones) wheels. You can hide a lot of lead in the front bumper, which is
quite solidly fitted and well in front of the rest of the car. The
biggest problem is the diff, been there, done that, got the t-shirt (and a
broken diff to proove it), and I was only playing a bit on a PCT, nothing
serious.
Thomas
I hope the attached photo comes out OK and demonstrates how good it is to allow Mokes into trials. If it doesn't transfer properly it shows one of the Ilkley Mokes towing the Yeller Dutton out of a muddy hole that Mr Bricol sort of drove into. I claim total innocence as I was the C of C that time, not the navigator. Also, as I was not driving that time, Brian won overall. TTFN
ReplyDeleteJohn
It was Peter Grenyer who campaigned the Moke in MCC events. Nice Guy, knows alot of the answer through hard earnt experiance with his Moke. If your thinking of putting a Moke in a main class sure a phone call to him would be of value. Email me if you want his phone number. Peter and I entered a Team in the early 70`s both driving TR3`s. So what have I learnt ?
ReplyDeleteFirstly thanks for the enthusiasm in trying to allow it to run Just to answer a few questions from the start of the thread. The battery on a Moke is in the side box just infront of the right rear wheel. The wheel base is the same as a van but the floor pan is a lot different. I think though for me the Moke is certainly not the best vehicle to compete in with its 10 inch wheels but it would be a lot of fun!! The diffs in Minis are easily fixed with better internals. I really dont mind which class the vehicle would have to run in because I dont think it would be competitive as a standard mini yet alone the "Trial Specials." In trial rules do open top cars have to have a roll cage? Thanks again for your help John
ReplyDeleteI think the reality is that for ground clearance reasons you could only use a Moke in Class 0 where there are all sorts of cars. Would the organisers turn you away? I wouldn't advise buying one for trials but if you have one put in an entry and see! I reckon that if the organisers don't read this they wouldn't know the rules anyway (But don't test it on the Clee ) No rollbar required. You will see many open cars do not have one. Their effectiveness is open to question if you are not belted in and few trials drivers use belts on sections.
ReplyDeleteI think the turn up idea is probably the best way. She will be finished soon. Just out of intrest as mentioned earlier about the height of the sides - They are 11 inches high from floor to top of the sill. Thanks again John
ReplyDeleteI think the reg for the height of the sides is measured from the seat not
ReplyDeletethe floor .
Pete - can't find the C9 you refer to in the blue book. What page is it on?
ReplyDeleteIt's [C(b)]9 "The seat cushion (i.e. the part on which the occupant sits) when uncompressed must not be less than 15.25cm below the top edge of the adjacent body side or door"
ReplyDeleteThanks Dudley - page 148
ReplyDeleteIf one were to follow the MSA rules to the letter, then a Moke would not be allowed in ANY form of motorsport because of its low sides - as per the earlier comments in this thread. But I suspect that if the MSA rules were followed to the letter, no club level motorsport would ever take place. Mokes are happily accepted on Class O, because that is very much an anything goes, "try before you buy", learn more about the sport, kind of class.
ReplyDeleteIf you were to run one in Class 1, and you could do so as this is a production front wheel drive car, then you would need to fabricate some doors. This would be quite legal as the car does come with a soft top that includes doors, and the rules allow a change of material for the doors.
But.......
You would certainly need to use 13" wheels and even with those, the Mini suspension set up still has very little in the way of travel and I'm fairly sure that everyone who has tried to make a rear engined Mini special work (both in trials and AWDC speed events) has found that constant application of full power with the suspension at the extremes of its travel WILL quite quickly result in transmission failure.
On the other hand, if you accept that you are never going to beat the Golfs & Peugeots, (with their 14" wheels and 150 horsepower engines) you can still have a lot of fun.
Just a thought. Remember the Players No 6 sponsored national autocross championship back in the late 60's. Players had about six Mini Mokes prepared with tuned 1275S engines fitted and these were used in each region for guest drivers to use. They were standard Moke bodies with no doors or sidescreens and ran on 10 inch wheels. They met the RAC requirements back then. Stuart Harrold
ReplyDeleteI thought those Players N. 6 Mokes were fitted with full seatbelts. Now that would be interesting on a trial! Robin Barlow
ReplyDeletePicking up on Stuart's points (although slightly off-thread), I recall the Players' No 6 Mokes which definitely ran without doors or side extensions. - This, however, was a different era - Was it 1966 or 1967? - Probably 1966 - having spectated at the championship final held just off the A34 south of Stafford. On this occasion, guest drivers included Paddy Hopkirk, John Rhodes (Mini circuit racer) and Roger Clark. As a spectator, it was doubly entertaining to see these accomplished drivers working hard at the controls! If I recall correctly, on this dry day the honours went to John Rhodes. Roger also entertained the crowd in S00 293D, the development MK11 Lotus Cortina - at a time when 'works' cars ran in standard colours without advertising, save for the discrete 'Britax' and the like. John Plant.
ReplyDeleteAhh, yes. Those were the days.
ReplyDeleteRegards to all,
John Rhodes.
But not THAT one, I'm the other famous
one.
Happy Days indeed, here are my Moke stories. In 1966 I was seconded to the Austin Gypsy demonstration team touring Lakeland and Yorkshire Dales country shows through the summer. Normally I was sent out in a swb soft top Gypsy petrol, a great machine easily comparable to a LR and we had a lot of fun with farmers trying to show us otherwise. But on several occasions I was sent out in the Moke, spruce green, t&c tyres, green vinyl hood, a huge amount of fun on the road (I was just nineteen back then) but not much good off-road. My fondest memory was spending a day driving the Moke in the Morecambe Carnival parade, I was carrying the carnival queen's two assistants draped on the back of the Moke. In those days we had the Miss GB contest at Morecambe so the girls certainly passed muster, I had an ache all day! Moving on to Players No.6 autocross, one of the stars in the NW region was Eric Clegg, he didn't actually drive a Moke but that's what inspired his cut down Mini special, basically a van floorpan, bonnet and front wings, and a drivers seat, hardly any sides to the machine, Eric was strapped into a bucket seat holding an unsupported steering column, he went like stink and was actually invited to appear at a TV rallycross one season. But for us young hot blooded autocross drivers at the time it was Eric's missus that caused all the excitement, hipster hot pants, white vinyl boots, blouse tied around the waist and a ribbon in her hair, she stood on the infield screaming 'Go on Eric!' during every one of his runs. Happy days indeed. Mr Moustache T6
ReplyDeleteAutocross ? yea I was there in Cornwall late sixties early seventies with people like Roger Bricknel and others who trial and marshall now - Oh and I still have the Moustache - but not the hair !
ReplyDeleteMikeW
Its great that so many people remember the Players cars. With
ReplyDeleteregards to the Moke they have said that it could be used for Historic Rallying
as long as it has a roll hoop and can use Cooper S running gear because the
players cars ran with S parts. My next area of research is to find out how they
did the gear linkage as the standard S remote change comes up straight through
the handbrake!! How good is you guys memory of those cars? Cheers John
From: MikesHusky1
[mailto:mike.warnes@btinternet.com]
Sent: 25 January 2009 22:09
To: Classical Gas, For Trials enthusiasts
Subject: Re: MINI MOKES
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