Hi, all, just a short message this time.
Does anyone else think Class 1 could be or should be split up in to engine size? How is a 2cv going to compete against a 2l? Most other forms of motor sport seem to split the class front engined front wheel drive, in to engine size, may get a few more 2cv`s doing it etc. I know engine size isn't everything in trails, but RWDs get split up in to there own class`s.
Up to 1000cc, 1000cc to 1600cc, 1601cc and over??
Cheers Jason
I think you make a very valid suggestion Jason, the problem with us oldies is that back in the day there was a large selection of cheap rwd and rear engined cars available to us for use in trials. The breakers yards were also full of suitable components to construct a really effective rwd/rear engined trials special so access to the sport was relatively simple and inexpensive. Now we're well into the twenty first century and the mass market motor manufacturers are almost to a man producing fwd vehicles something has to give in trialling.
ReplyDeleteIf we're going to encourage the next generation of trials drivers we have to provide them with an opportunity to excel and develop their skills without being demoralised by using what is currently non competitive machinery, or by being priced out of the sport before they get properly started. We've already seen just what can be achieved by a highly modified fwd car, what we need now is an incentive for drivers of less developed machines. An engine capacity break and some sensible restrictions on allowable modifications would make it much more appealing to the next generation of trials drivers. Mind you I shudder to think how unstable the inevitably emerging new crop of fwd class 8 specials will be on the road between sections!
1600cc seems like a sensible break point, I'm not sure we are at a stage to need to split into 3 categories though, when most trials currently have 4 to 6 fwd entries. Anything to encourage new competitors is worth serious consideration. Even if it might seem a bit radical!
ReplyDeleteClasses 4 and 6 [rear engine, rwd] are split along the 1300cc mark.....extremes accepted, is there really much difference, from a competitive viewpoint?
ReplyDeleteWe are in danger of falling into the trap of relying more on vehicle than driver.
A 2CV is equally as competent as a 2 litre FWD....in the right hands.
Preparation, reliability, are more important than actual power output.
The engine capacity separation with classes 4 and 6 came about because of an obvious [at the time] advantage with the bigger engine.....the questionwe might eed to ask is, in class 1, is there an obvious, existing competitive advantage , or is it a perception based upon modern driver thinking?
Last Sunday's ACTC Council Meeting discussed a proposal, signed by five well-known Class 1 competitors, to allow the use of Quaife diffs in Class 1 cars. I think this is the "radical" proposal that James is alluding to above. The prime motivation in making the proposal was to REDUCE the entry cost of Class 1 trialling by providing competitors with a mechanical solution to the constant problem of broken diffs (= broken gearboxes = a lot of work and/or cost to replace). This proposal is now with the ACTC clubs for consideration and you may wish to lobby your club - either way!
ReplyDeleteEveryone accepts that this is a radical departure for classic trialling and, if adopted, will have the inevitable consequence of making a torque-biasing diff a virtual "must" for Class 1 competitors - Council discussed splitting the Class and most delegates thought this was crazy when class entries are still so small. So ... I don't think engine size is the key issue for Class 1 at the moment.
What does everyone else think?
An interesting issue in Class 1. Is the relatively small entry due to the high level of cars and driving in that class? We are all getting older and we need younger people to come into the sport at least at the level of the older ones dropping out. If you are starting from scratch and are not part of a trials family where you can start with one of the family cars where do you start?
ReplyDeletePerhaps a 1.2 Nova or 1 litre Fiesta might be the ideal way. They are still available. When I started doing classics in 1989 my Beetle was 17 years old, its now nearly 40, same issue for Escorts, Midgets etc. In my opinion an entry car for a new competitor "without connections" needs to be drivable on the road as a first or second car, be usable in other events such as PCT's an Autotests and relatively inexpensive (have you seen the prices a Mk1 Escort will fetch?)
Yes there are many, many complications to mess with the class structure. But if Jasons idea aids entry into the sport then, IMHO, it deserves serious consideration.
Quaife is a slippery slope. Gripper Diff can build a 4 Planet Diff leaving out the lim slip plates if 4 planets is what you need. I understand this still needs ACTC approval but a less contentious solution.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.racecar.co.uk/gripper/
On last years Ilkley trial, a stan'ard Nissan Micra beat a Peugeot 1900ccGti, proving that engine size does not get you any further up the hills.
ReplyDeleteRealiabilty is the big issue in the transmission department!! for any new comers in the sport.
Short of providing showroom cars for all to use, the competitors with the greatest drive will always find there way to the top of the class.
I initially thought the engine size split was a good idea and would suggest 1400 cc as there are lots of good 1400 FWD cars about and they are fairly cheap. But since the ACTC meeting I agree with Green Golf that its reliability of components that are needed and thought the Quaife suggestion was good. Now Michael says Gripper Diff will build a 4 planet diff without the limited slip bits. If that is acceptable then Blue Booh paragraph T9.4 will need revising. Eventually, as Class 3 to 6 cars are no longer available then splits in Class 1 on engine size seems the way ahead.
ReplyDeleteStuart Harrold
Here goes......
ReplyDeleteI have grown up with fwd, my only rwd drive car is a x1/9 and that uses fwd running gear! All I know is front wheel drive and I think most of my generation are in the same boat??!
I have had nothing but problems with my 205 blowing diffs up, which as I am shore you are all aware that it blows the gearbox as well, so a Quaife TBD could be the wayfoward.
A couple of problems with a Quaife TBD,
1) Do they supply them for every make a model?? If I went back to Trialing a Yugo could I get a TBD for it???
2)Reliability is ment to be great, but does it have any advantage in Trailing??
If any of these are in doubt then Class 1 needs to be split 100%
In all the years me and the old man trialed a Yugo we never had problems with diff failing so why would we want to put a fancy diff in it???!
On a + point I agree 100% that a Quaite TBD will pay for itself and is a good investment, and if you going to try and go for big power and have a heavy right foot then diff failure is going to happen weather your driving a Yugo or not!!!!
I new nothing about this diff plan, so kinder puts the engine size idea on a back burner.
"On last years Ilkley trial, a stan'ard Nissan Micra beat a Peugeot 1900ccGti, proving that engine size does not get you any further up the hills."
ReplyDeletethats why your Golf is only a 1.4 GL ?
I personally think a class split wouldn't be a bad idea,and would personally think 1400cc to be a good break point.
ReplyDeleteI also would like to point out that the Ilkley trial is one which uses alot of grass sections and I'm sure Dave would be the first to admit that the micra giant killing wouldn't happen on most of the actc events in the calendar at present. As for the 2CV comment by Alistair,I couldn't disagree more.
I think with reference to Jason's question on the quaife diff,as to wether reliability has an advantage in trialling can only be answered by "yes". Greater reliability would put less people off the sport than if they were coming out breaking the car every trial.
Sorry that question was not how it was ment to read!
ReplyDelete2) This diffs have great reliability, but if they have more of an advantage over a standad diff in tearms of grip then the class needs to be split.
And of course reliability is a advantage!!!! Sorry the wording was all wrong!
And I also agree that a 2cv is never ever going to be as competitive as a 2l, whoever is driving it!!!
http://www.quaife.co.uk/differentials
ReplyDeleteThe point on the Quaife is that it is a "locker" designed to "....reduce wheelspin and increase traction". That moves away from the fundamental principle in our sport where we have to use free and uninterrupted differentials.
As I said in my earlier post I know Gripper can supply their 4 planet wheel diff without the Lim Slip Plates. It maybe that companies like Elite can do the same. http://www.eliteracingtransmissions.com However, the fundamental principle of the Quaife is that under high load it is not free and the way it is made with those helical gears it is impossible to be modified otherwise.
IMHO free diffs are a fundamental part of our sport. Many other classes have diff reliability problems and have been solved within the established parameters.
If you want to go all out in FWD, get a 2 litre and modify it to the hills and beyond. If you want to enter into classic trialling along the FWD route get a cheap starter car and go from there. Split the class at 1400cc and give new entries the option to go for a smaller or bigger capacity if they wish. If gripper diffs are allowed now then where do we stop? Can I then ask to fit one for my Estelle (if available) due to the possible weakness of the diff? Why not then allow them in all classes to keep everyone sweet but thereby loose the fundemental origins of the sport as Michael has said. Split FWD class yes, gripper diffs no.
ReplyDeletewow, this must be the longest thread on here already! It's definitely an area that everyone has an opinion on.
ReplyDeleteclass splitting : i dont think the class is big enough to split - yet!! But I know exactly how Jason is feeling as I have been there myself. Rather than needing a 'new' class with official awards how about having 1a) over 1600cc 1b) under 1600cc - still only one class winner but at least then the under 1600's can have their own 'win' rather than almost always coming behind the larger engined cars.
Regarding engine capacity in fwd: size does matter. It's not the be all and end all though, there is still plenty of driver skill required to control that power. The Micra on last years Ilkley had an experienced pct driver at the helm so he was getting the best out of the car, the 205 that was beaten was driven by a motorsport novice. The Micra didn't exactly win the class though!
diffs: mention of the word Quaife seems to be a bit of a hornets nest. Yes Gripper can make a 4 planet open diff but is it reliable? How is yours doing Jason? Quaife offer a lifetime guarantee and have been around in motorsport for ages. Their diff is torque biasing as opposed to limited slip, and as was demonstrated on the Bodmin trial last year (when Ian Cundy's golf was fitted with a Quaife for testing) it does give you a small edge on performance. But its not leaps and bounds ahead, and probably not as much of a leap as fitting an LSD by Gripper or TransX or whoever, with the preload set nice and high.
When I started trialing a little over 2 years ago, I got the feeling that Class 1 was seen as a bit of a waste of time by some, infact on the start line of my first hill ever, I asked the start marshall for some advice. "Get a rear wheel drive" I was told! At the end of the day, the older the car, the more suitable it is for the hills we use as back then these hills were the roads. Modern fwd cars have puny little diffs and will need replacing with something. A straight swap with something available off the shelf (fit and forget!) seems like the best solution to me. And if Class 1 started winning overall left right and centre, give us a few more restarts or a couple higher psi limit.
rwd - your diff goes, spanner out, a few bolts later and spare diff hidden away in the mobile workshop / ballast pit (a.ka. boot) can be in place. fwd - it's new gearbox time! slight difference. we are already at a disadvantage to rwd and for those just getting into it who might as well set up camp somewhere around the 11 marker, aswell as providing a reliable transmission it gives them a SMALL performance boost and a chance to see the top of a few hills!
During the origins of the sport, fwd didn't exist (for good reason some may add!) It's here now and here to stay, cars have progressed and I believe our sport should aswell.
James, progress yes but dont introduce anything that could give an advantage to one class over others. No doubt the historians will start to quote many things that have happened over the years to kill that argument!!!!
ReplyDeleteQuaife lifetime guarantee is for manufacturing defects?
ReplyDeleteNothing in motorsport has a guarantee - except that it will cost more money the more competitive you get
Re Myke's comment above - "... give an advantage to one class over others." Isn't that what every Clerk of the Course tries to avoid? If Class 1 starts doing "better", then the C-of-Cs will just adjust the tyre pressures, start lines, restarts, etc.
ReplyDeleteI'm with James on this one, FWD IS different: break a diff = break a gearbox = end of trial + big money to repair.
Thanks James.......!!
ReplyDeleteI'm shore you will all agree the most fwd cars are now running four planet diffs?, and all escorts etc??? This has no performance gain but stops the gear box having to be replaced every time!
I'm gonner be completely honest here, the guy at Gripper is a really nice guy and the couple of times it has gone bang he has fixed it FOC. I'm now on the third one and this time he has completely re designed it inside so should be 100%!
What my point is, I think I am only person running a Gripper four planet open diff in FWD other trialers run them in RWD and seem to have no problem. And yes baldrick391 other rwds are running them!! Even tho they work the same as a normal open diff.
So the MK2 Gripper open diff needs more testing in a fwd trials car. The old man has done a Autocross with it and all is fine, but that is no were near the punsment that trials give it!
I've just composed a long reply on this subject, then I realised that its nearly time for me to write "Simon Says" for Restart. So if you want to know what I think, then you'll have to wait to the magazine comes out. If you don't get the magazine, then you should! The only thing I will say here, is that strickly speaking fitting an open version of the gripper is contary to T9.4.3 but I think this particular rule is past its sell by date anyway.
ReplyDeleteThis makes for very interesting reading. Myself and my son Ian have trialled a Golf in Class 1 every year since 1992 averaging approx 5 trials a year. During that time we reckon we have broken about a dozen diffs - everytime wrecking the gearbox casing meaning another complete gearbox needed. In my opinion FWD cars are much harder on the diff because of the amount of wheelspin. This wheelspin is inevitable - to make any progress on the ever more difficult sections a certain amount of "burning" is necessary because you cannot rely on the weight of the car to transfer to the driven wheels to aid grip unlike a RWD car. (See the front of any MCC event programme stating that FWD is the most disadvantaged class!) You have to rely on ground speed to carry you over the trickier parts of a section. This is why considerable power and torque is necessary to gain speed in a short distance. This wheelspin is very hard on the planet wheels and pin(s) in the diff as the oil film breaks down and causes metal to metal contact and eventually seizure of the planet wheel to the pin resulting in a split planet wheel which throws itself out of the diff and through the gearbox casing. We have tried many variations of 2 and 4 pinion diffs including using needle roller bearings, different lubricants and materials, etc. We have had little success with anything we have tried in the diff department. These reliability problems mean we restrict ourselves to a low number of events per year because of the cost associated with these failures including recovering the car home from long distances as it is impossible to repair "beside the road". We feel a Quaife would be a favourable solution as they are reasonably priced when compared to other trials diffs, have a big product range covering many manufacturers and have a lifetime guarantee. During last years Camel Vale Bodmin trial we tested the performance of a Quaife diff using roller testing (which proved it was undetectable) and there was little if any performance advantage during the trial. We feel FWD cars should be allowed to use a Quaife diff to encourage newcomers to the sport so they do not have to go through the years of problems and prohibitive costs we have incurred.
ReplyDeleteGripper diff , even in open form is not strictly legal [ to the letter of the law ]
ReplyDeletebut they do need testing for reliability in fwd , so get to it and good luck ;]
Wow the can of worms is open
ReplyDeleteI left a comment on the other thread earlier,but now i have read these, i feel its time for some common sense.If a modified limited slip, gripper or whatever type of diff is going to be allowed universally in class 1 thats good for reliability . I speak as a clerk of course and a competitor[not in a fwd] good old rwd henry ford for me.
We the small team are already investigating new hills for next years torbay trial its hard enough now to get the balance right between stopper and down right dangerous.But i have already thought of my solution the fwd class are getting more competitive i will give them the same restarts as class 3 and instruct marshalls to fail any competitor who is 'burning' no matter what class he or she is in, in fact this is a much more serious subject, we have all seen the youtube coverage of the Lands End not good for the sport.
One class 1
ReplyDeleteup to 1400 LSD [Quaife etc] permitted
over 1400cc Open Diff
I thought we had enough stoppers on this years Torbay. Best fwd was 13th overall, with more restarts we'd have no chance!
ReplyDeletecc based diff split could be an option, I'm not sure if 1400 or 1600 is a better split point though.
Sorry James did not make it clear future plans are, cut out some of the extreme muddy field sections include more classic lane and forestry type sections hopefully long and blasters the sort i like , but its pretty difficult finding these and then getting permission
ReplyDeleteclass split good idea lower cc cars can have easier route and will encourage new blood we really need new blood
"class split good idea lower cc cars can have easier route and will encourage new blood we really need new blood"
ReplyDeletedoes owning an Anglia turn you into a Vampire then ?
I'm getting worried !
Carl you are the Anglia man now! I have sold the 'Mountain Goat'
ReplyDeleteshe was out on the Lands End and her new owner will drive her harder than i did, poor old thing!!!!!!
Personally, I believe any ideas we may have to increase numbers in our sport are worth looking at, number of entries are in decline and not to much young blood about.
ReplyDeleteAs with previous contentious post about 4/5 speed gearboxes, duratec engines a lot of the concerns raised are from competitors protecting there own position, in this case the FWDs mainly seem to be in favour of a Quaiffe The performance advantage does not seem to be that great as shown by Ian Cundy on a recent event.
If the Fwds start to preform too well the C of Cs would very quickly respond to make a level playing field, restarts, tyre pressures, start lines or scoring relief, all available tools for the organisers.
No matter how you try to tinker with the rules to overcome your inability to get up the hills, the competitors who put all there time into there cars will come out on top.
As I said at the beginning this is about getting new comers in at the bottom and keeping them.
Ok, my first post....
ReplyDeleteAs the bloke who got beat by the Micra at Ilkley last year in my 205 1900 GTi and as 'New Blood' I might be able to give a different perspective.
I have only competed in 6 trials since my first Edinburgh Trial in Oct 2008. I entered a pretty standard 205 1900 GTI with a sump guard and slightly raised rear suspension, nothing done to the front as I ran out of time and cash before the date and decided to got for it anyway. It was a great day out, I think I got the highest score of the day, mainly because I grounded out at nearly all the starts.
I only enter Edinburgh, Clee, Northern ( When its running), Lands End & Ilkley due to me living in North Yorkshire. To date I have only competed in 6 trails including the Ilkley 2010, I was beaten again by the Micra!! (Shameful day, thanks for enjoying that so much Dave H !!!).
I really enjoy trialling and I enjoy nothing more than getting to the top of a section. I will never compete in enough trials to consider entering the championship and for that reason if I am happy to ignore certain re-starts I know my car will never get away from in the given conditions, because I want to try to get to the top. My car isn't anywhere near as good as other 205's or Golfs etc in Class and nor am I as good as those drivers. (hopefully getting better each time) This year’s Ilkley was the best learning experience so far, all 205's ran nearly together so I got the benefit of learning from more experienced drivers and thanks to those drivers who offered help and advice, much appreciated.
To date after 6 trials I have spent £495 on gearboxes and diffs to keep my 205 on the road. After £495 I still only have a standard open diff as the further "£350 for a 4 pin diff" charity box isnt full yet!! In the last 6 months I have paid for and missed the Clee, Northern and Lands End due to mechanical problems but was delighted to get out to my local in Ilkley.
My dilemma now is do I keep saving for the £350 4 pin diff or do I save even harder for a Quiafe. There is no cast iron guarantee that my 4 pin will last for ever, I know others have needed replacement parts after 12 months and they are getting more difficult to get hold of or do I buy one that has a life time guarantee and I wont struggle to get parts for. I know I would rather get the quiafe and stop worry about blowing diffs and gearboxes.
You have a great sport, but it is so easy to give up when you keep blowing boxes and diffs right fro the off. I am not a mechanic although I do nearly all the work myself to reduce the costs. This does give a great sense of pride as your car and you get better but really hurts when it something blows.
Restarts, tyre pressure etc as already mentioned would easily address any issues if Class 1 drivers with Quaifes start winning everything. I would be happy to see them endorsed for reliability and longer term economy.
Lee
PS My wing mirrors scored 27 points this weekend, so I would have beaten the Micra if it wasn’t for the pesky mirrors.
After the story from Alan cundy I don't see there is any future for 2/4 pin open diffs in FWD, who ever makes them I just don't see that there up to the job, my new mk2 style open diff is the same inside as what you guys have tryed and fail with, so to be honest I don't hold much hope, but I could be proved wrong! This is No dig at Gripper they make great diffs!!
ReplyDeleteI see a Quaife ATB diff (Not a LSD in any class) to be the ONLY way forward. So were do I sign on the dotted line??!!
Did I read on here some were that ATB diffs are undetectable on the rollers?! If so whats to say someone is running one of this already?!! If there is no way of picking them up then folks are going to put them in anyway!!!
If this ATB diff doesn't come in and my open diff does go bang I'm buying a x90!!
Also Lee Huck, ive also wanted to enter events but haven't turned up because my diff has been sat on the bench for weeks, the girlfriends not very happy becuse I'm in the workshop all the time taking the dam thing in and out, and little trips around the uk picking up (what is getting hard to get) gearboxs. This is why I'm at very little trials because the dam thing is always in bits!!!!
Good comments coming out on these threads seems like getting new comers into trailing is a topic most of us agree on, but keep the comments light hearted
ReplyDeleteIam tight, will always build my trial cars the hard way, second hand bits where ever i can 3 children and a 4 bedroom house to pay for has got something to do with it.
All newcomers won,t want to be in class 1 i guess class 3 4 & 5 are an option, mind you a good escort shell is costly don,t follow prices of beetles but the Suzy x90 dosent seem to bad an option, except not much room inside ..
Lets have some getting started info on these pages if you like...
Many moons ago before fack diffs , when my dear old dad was alive if i arrived home on a Sunday night not smelling of EP90 he would say not had a very good day then Greg those were the days when Escort diffs were virtually held in with wing nuts !!!!
I have found that the diff case [ the bit that all the differential gears goes in , not the gbox/axle casing ] needs to be almost a completely sealed unit , so that oil cannot be spun out by centrifugal force . I recommend Redline Heavy Duty Anti-Shock oil -- thats even more expense [ a gearbox full in my Fiat Panda cost more than the purchase price of the car ], but it seems to do the trick !!
ReplyDeleteanother vote for the magic red gearbox cream from me :)
ReplyDeletein the colder months i tend to leave the car in 1st when i park it up, on ocassion trying to get into gear when leaving for a trial at 4am on a rather chilly night can be fun!
Break a diff in an Imp and it is also the same result as the FWD equation above so maybe they aren't that different to existing cars that have been around for a while
ReplyDeleteThis is similar to the problem I have with this. What about the ever increasing numbers of class 8 cars that use a FWD engine and box in the back? Will they be allowed a Quaife just because if they break a diff it breaks the gearbox too?!!
ReplyDeleteWheres the best place to get some Redline Heavy Duty Anti Shock Gear oil? Is the 75w-140 the best spec to use? Or is there any other oil manufactures, that produce the same spec Gear oil?
ReplyDeleteIsn't the Heavy Shockproof stuff 75W-250?
ReplyDelete"This unique product has the film thickness greater than that of a 75W250 oil yet has the low fluidity of a 75W90 oil, effectively giving you the best of both worlds, heavy duty protection without the power sapping viscosity."
ReplyDeleteI got my last lot from Demon Tweeks, not the cheapest but it always turns up next day : http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Motorsport/Oil_System/Oils_&_Additives/Gear_Oil/Red_Line_Heavy_Shockproof_Gear_Oil/1644/0/36377
or a bit cheaper on Camskill : http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b539s1733p6947&tbv=REDLINE_-_Heavy_ShockProof_Gear_Oil_-_0.946_Litre/1_US_Quart_Oil,_Lubrication,_Fluids_&_Liquid_Additives_REDLINE_-_Oil,_Lubrication_&_Additives
2 quarts should be enough for a BE1/3 but i usually get 3 so ive got some spare incase i lose some after driveshaft changes.
Cheers James for that info, will give that a go.
ReplyDeleteBreak a diff in any car with a transaxle (diff and gears in same housing) and it's pretty much end of the event for you. So yes it's class 1 but also classes 4, 6 and parts of 7 and 8. Agreed the consequences appear to be worse in class 1 ie you seem to wreck the casing whereas other classes seem to be able to salvage casing and gears. Phil asks about class 8s with FWD transaxles. Yes, it's a problem. Ross Norman had it in the Deere special and a Transit connect diff didn't make much difference. I think Dean Partington's had it and almost everyone with a VW aircooled transaxle will have had issues, myself included.
ReplyDeleteSomeone suffering this problem has spoken to Quaife about a stronger free diff and the response was 'no need, you can pass the roller test used in trials with one of our diffs..you just need to....' The person who made the enquiry hung up at the point.
Funny thing is a lot of diff damage is probably done burning for too long after we've failed a section or a restart...I can link my diff failures to specific restart failures and I know Ross could the first time it happened to him.Perhaps there's a message in that for the sport as a whole?? Not only is excessive burning a PR issue, as estate 64 says, but it's also costing some of us excessive amounts of hard-earned cash....
Ian, I think you mean Ross Norman, not Ross (Dellow Mk2) Nuten, although I think the latter has broken the odd diff in his English axle.
ReplyDeleteThanks Michael, yes edited that but not quickly enough. Cheers
ReplyDeleteSuppose we had an under 1400cc Class 1, but you could only stay in it for the first 2 years or, say, 10 trials...........
ReplyDeletei can link all bar one of my diff or driveshaft failures to shock loading (the other one was putting a 2nd hand driveshaft of unknown condition in after last years Lands End to be able to compete in the Presidents, and subsequently destroying the outer c/v joint on the 2nd hill!)
ReplyDeleteNice to hear the m c c ref Ian Davis comments] are bringing out a more robust diff tester.
ReplyDeleteBut to be honest there will always rumors about who's got what diff in etc has been a topic for many interesting conversations over the years! ! tis pretty good for getting folks wound up now and again ! as we say down here in the westcountry!.
Not the MCC, but ACTC now have a diff tester that can detect a Quaife diff. It will appear randomly at events starting in the autumn, and the decision made at ACTC Council at the beginning of the month, was "fail this test and you're out" no arguments.
ReplyDeleteThanks Simon looks like a pretty tough line is being taken already. Looks like the only 'winding up' will be of the back wheels!!
ReplyDeleteSo whats the latest news then guys?!
ReplyDeleteThe weekend after the Testing Trial the old man rolled my 205 at a Autocross.
To cut a long story short I am building a new 205 but wont be any good for trials, so just want to know whats going on, so I know what car to build for trials, and weather to stay in class 1!
Also the Shockproof gearbox oil seems to be doing the trick!
Please reply here http://classicaltrials.multiply.com/journal/item/1503/Class_1_revisited
ReplyDeleteAdrian's TranX proposal and drawings have been circulated with the minutes of the May 8th ACTC council meeting to all ACTC club delegates.
ReplyDeleteStuart Harrold - Hon. Sec. ACTC
Have copied Stuarts post above to the new thread. The way these forums work its best to start a new thread if the old ones as old as this. Thats so more people see it.
ReplyDeletePlease reply to the new thread at http://classicaltrials.multiply.com/journal/item/1503/Class_1_revisited
Just click the link above
This site is good.. I think i will tell it to my friends, if you want to visit my site..Alberto Villuenva Jr.
ReplyDeleteHas been doing this for 3 years from now or visit us d3dx9.net
Thanks.