Enjoyed my annual trialling trip to Yorkshire although I didn't trouble the awards secretary as I had an off day behind the steering wheel.
I thought the organisers had positioned the marker posts to make some of the sections very tight, especially the first Swordpoint section where it was barely possible to squeeze between the 10 marker and a very substantial tree.
I didn't do very well on the new Longside Wood section but those that got round the first hairpin enjoyed the long blast up between the bluebells. We had to wait about an hour for our turn as everyone had to reverse back down but hopefully the organisers will be able to keep this hill for the future.
No problems with our car but we saw Simon Woodall limping with collapsed suspension and James Shallcross had multiple punctures.
Don't know what happened to Dave Haizeldens Escort or Dave Olivers Peugot, both of who retired early on. I know Stuart Bartlett pushed the radiator into the fan on his Midget at the first special test. I can sympathise as we hit the same hillock with a hell of a bang.
We didn't get to the finish until 6.30 but there was still some welcome complimentary food available. The Ilkley is a very different Classic Trial but we enjoy it for what it is. We have done the last five and all being well will return next year.
How was your Ilkley Trial?
Great event and views as usual and the Liege contingent had a good day with a 1,3,4 in class. Excellent marshalling and well organised our thanks to the IDMC team.
ReplyDeleteLiked the new section at Longside Wood. Discussions at the end had all-ready started on how it could be run to make things flow quicker, the blast up the hill was enough without the initial hairpin bend.
It was a long drive home in the Liege, but we had the usual pouring rain on the M62 and Stott Farm in the middle of the carriage ways to keep us entertained!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M62_motorway
See you next year
Kevin
Thoroughly enjoyed the trial even though I pulled a drive shaft out on Strid Wood 2. Thought I had cured that problem. Still dont like the rule that penalises hitting markers as I cleaned Sword Point 1 for the first time but had hit the 10. Also cleaned Peels Wood 2 even with a Restart but had also hit a marker. I dont agree with the organisers comment that the sections are set out amply wide enough not to hit markers, see Sword Point 1 for that! Regarding Longside 1, I would have the lower classes starting where the marshals cars were, ie; a straight run at the hill and keep the hairpin for the upper classes dependant on the weather of course. Watergate was an absolute blast as usual but I had to contend with an earful from The Boss as she banged her head off the roof. Then I managed to do it again to her on Sword Point 1. Not a happy bunny was she!!! I think also that the club should cut down on the number of sections. Although we were delayed by the drive shaft and a couple of wrong routes, we still didnt finish until 6:30. Delayed on the road home by an accident and diversion at Kirby Lonsdale so Plod sent us south to join the motorway.Then came across a cow on the road which tested the trailer brakes and finally another accident with Plod in attendance as White Van Man had totalled his Transit Connect into a dry stone wall just after a humpy back bridge. Finally home by 10:30.
ReplyDeleteAfter retiring on the first section last year, decided I had some unfinished business with the Ilkley, so left the golf at home and trailered the escort too the start. Running last car the ruts were very deep, would have struggled in the golf but no chance in the escort.
ReplyDeleteAfter 5 hills the push-rod came out of the clutch slave cylinder and that was game over!
The club very kindly put on some food for us at the clubhouse despite being 2 hours early.
Home in bed for 2 am.
Had an enjoyable day with no major problems. I think the event is very well organised and uses a great variety of sections, thanks to all involved in the running and preparation. I particularly enjoyed the new (?) section despite the long wait. As I got round the first corner I felt the wait was justified by the long blast(despite being marked as scoring 7 when we passed the 7 marker - we didn't notice until we were down the road). However I can fully sympathise with anyone who failed on the first corner, it was a long wait for little return, and seems a misjudgement really since no-one was getting clear. A good hill should get progressively harder. Enjoyed the Brimham Lodge section, a tricky challenge, made a right hash of Strid Wood 2 and when can the lower classes get a blast up the full Incline? We are really flying by the end of Incline 1 and would love to keep going.
ReplyDeleteAs above I also disagree with the quip about markers being ample wide enough. Sword Point 1 was disgusting and a real waste of time (and I cleaned it - more through luck than judgement). Cant imagine how those in longer vehicles fared, were they entitled to a shunt?! Cleared Peel Wood 2 after watching numerous cars fail it, only to be told our back end had clipped a marker - annoying - and despite driver error leading to me taking out the 5,4 and 3 markers on Watergate 2, the 1 cane was deliberately placed to be hit and all but unavoidable!
Last grouch - not a single tire pressure check all day! If a club is going to insist on pressure limits then they have to be prepared to enforce it otherwise what is the point. We could be penalised for being honest!
Sorry to grouch, we had a great day enjoying most of the sections and the lovely views. All the Marshall's were friendly and helpful and deserve a medal for standing out in the sideways rain. The organisation and route seemed top notch. just get rid of the hitting markers rule.
Impressions as a first-timer: Well supported by entrants and with the luxury of no shortage of marshals. I welcomed the large number of Sections rendering my 651 mile round-journey worthwhile. Support of the burger van at start and lunch, and inclusive meal at finish was appreciated. Excellent and enthusiastic recovery support on most if not all sections. Route: compact with interesting scenic drives (good for the less competitive! - like myself..)
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, I share Michael's and Myke's views on the defined width of the sections - for which I struggle to find good reason. 'Trickling' between markers, I perceive to be for Car Trials (PCT-type), whereas Classics, I perceive to be for 'blasting'. I fell foul of a marker on Sword Point 1, and was lucky not to be penalised elsewhere. On Watergate 2, I purposefully did not "give it my best shot" for fear of striking a marker on the way up - making the Section feel very PCT-type. The sections themselves were sufficiently challenging (I thought) for most, without the need to introduce an artificial constraint of narrow Sections.
The significant delay at Highfield Farm Special Test (? - if that is the current /correct terminology) could have been much reduced by having two pairs of timing marshals, second car released when first car crossed the gateway.- without impairing safety - More than adequate marshals available. - The more unfortunate since occasioned by a Special Test, and not Section.
Two thoughts on safety: (both from a personal perspective!): Highfield Farm - 'Stop Astride' on slippery grass, slightly downhill, positioned a little way before a stout fence. Peel's Wood: 90 degree right before '2' marker - slide backwards, prospect of 60 foot drop - no bushes (or trees) to cushion.
My performance? - First Ilkley, first in 105E Anglia, first (completed) 'Classic' in RWD for 15 years.: Bedevilled by 'fluffing' carbonation on Weber 28/36, notably stalling on both Langbar 1, and Hey Slack, producing a mediocre '24' before lunch. Revised driving technique of not 'lifting off" and of slipping the clutch - most notable smell at Sword Point 1, produced a more-respectable '16' in the afternoon.
No gripes intended - just constructive comment, upon a most-enjoyable, and well-organised event.
For a non-technical man, I welcome advice upon how to counter the Weber 'fluffing'. My erstwhile passenger / mentor Dave (Malin) mentioned affixing small pipes atop the carburettor jets. Applied and used successfully by others? - Alternative remedies? (other than the SU-route)
John Plant.
Sam, In the early days all classes did Incline 2 (brilliant)until there was an accident there and it was from then on only for the upper classes.(not us working class types!!!)
ReplyDeleteI agree with this Sam, especially for a championship event. As it happens I wouldn't have said pressures would have made that much difference on this event but as you say thats not the point.
ReplyDeletean enjoyable event as always. A very special thanks to Michael for helping me change 2 tubes - a total of 4 punctures during the event and discovery of a slow puncture at the finish! Oh along with a broken starter motor just after the last hill... lucky the way out was downhill!
ReplyDeletei agree with the comments about markers, and 19 of my 38 points by the end were down to clipping markers! 9 on Watergate 1 but that was due to an instant flat in the restart box pulling the car sideways into the 9 marker, and then a lovely 10 on Sword Point 1. The turn was very tight but in my case it was driver error and im sure with a second chance at it i could have made it through but i can see how some cars just could not have made it. The Ilkley has always had a PCT feel to it but given the hills available and the conditions it certainly helped to add some points to a lot of scores. Having said that I much prefer a blast to a trickle.
Dave Oliver retired in his Peugeot 205 with diff failure on the Highfield Farm Special Test.
tyre pressures - even one random check would be far better than none. I think that the new Longside Wood section would have been a good place to put it as that was the only hill i can remember thinking that pressures might have made a difference. I for one didnt mind the wait to have a go at it, a very deceptive hill that looked much easier than it was! Though for later numbers they must have had to wait a very long time. I dont think that removing the first hairpin would have made the queue any shorter, as those who didnt make it round could quickly reverse and clear the section whereas if everyone had a straight run there would be more time waiting for cars to reverse back down.
All in all, a good day, well organised and marshalled.
We broke a springplate - something I've never seen before.
ReplyDeleteI always enjoy the Ilkley, probably because of the friendly welcome, the good weather and the good scenery. I really rated Longside Wood and told the C-of-C at the finish that we wanted more sections like that. Talking to the C-of-C on Saturday night, he said that he had briefed the marshals to check tyre pressures, so I don't know what went wrong there. I think we need to try to get the club to grasp the idea that things other than the markers should be used to delineate sections. I also think we did too many sections. I personally think that 15 would have been enough.
I always enjoy the Ilkley. I would hate to miss it. But I don't like the unnecessarily narrow sections and marker-clipping penalties. I moved on from PCT's years ago. Someone really should sort out this problem and standardise the format for Classic Trials.
ReplyDeleteDespite driving the fat ugly duckling of current trials cars (an X90 if you needed to be told), we actually clipped only one marker (on Hawpike 2) with a sliding rear end, then continued to clean the section. All other points were gained by my rather poor performance in a car that I both love and hate.
I have no problem with the length of the event although the areas of delay this year need some fine-tuning. However, I have always considered Hawpike 1 a complete waste of time and wouldn't be sorry to see it dropped.
It was an excellent event as usual. Well-organised, well-marshalled and well-hosted in Yorkshire (where they have their own tea!)
Class 0...... isn't that what PCT's are for?
Message to John Plant re 28/36
ReplyDeleteJohn, I put a 28/36 on my Skoda when I fitted the special build engine in '94/'95. I took care and time setting it up on Neil Bray's rolling road, (many thanks for the loan, Neil), got it spot-on across the whole range, and it went like s**t off a shovel on the road, on autotests and so on.
BUT the main purpose of car was also to enable son Matt and I to do the Classics, and whenever we got onto a steep and bumpy section she would fluff, flood and die. Back out of the section, get her re-started and she would fly around the route until we got onto the next section ( a hugely frustrating season) !!
The reason is the float chamber arrangement relative to the main jets, and the heavy metal float. When you are on a steep incline combined with a bumpy surface, the float bounces, the needle valve opens, allows excess fuel into the chamber and you get flooding.
I tried everything to stop it, (new needle valve / set the float level to the lean end of the range / modify jet and emulsion tube selection etc ) and I ended up doing what you don't want to, ..... yep, I fitted an SU !!
The other alternative is a 40DCOE and they work fine on trials cars, but they cost more !
Best of luck finding your solution.
Simon
John, I would agree with Simon about SU's. In fact it was he who advised I used one on Baldrick and it went very well. Eventually I ungraded to a SU HIF from a Montego I think. David Vizard in his excellent book on Tuning the A Series Engine gives some useful advice on further improving the HIF. If I am not mistaken, some of the Escort boys use SU's on x flows. Do not discount bike carbs though. They are very easy to fit with the correct manifold and can be tuned also with ease and give excellent performance, easily as good as anything you are likely to get out of a Weber. Bogg Brothers are the accepted experts on all things bike carb on car engines and it was them that I took Baldrick to for the carb tuning. By the way Simon, your original engine now resides in my workshop waiting for a full rebuild and then further abuse in some way or another. I did use it once on the Kyrle but the flywheel bolts sheared!!! (not your originals though)
ReplyDeleteGreat to hear that my old engine has a good home Myke, take good care of it as it was a gem and pulled like a donkey from 1000 rpm upwards, (special grind on the cam from a very helpful guy in Kent Cams after a personal visit).
ReplyDeleteThat engine was put together for me by a guy who used to be one of the Skoda UK Rally Team and of more recent years was working as a research and development engineer for Lotus.
I can look out the full spec of it if you ever want to know.
All the best,
Simon
By the way, I still have a one last item from my Skoda days, which is a Skoda Rally Team cylinder head, plus I have the valves and springs for it, oh and also the spark plugs !!
Let me know if you or anyone else is interested.
S
Markers are fine to define a section when a neutral track is not available, but to then penalise a competitor for at the very least breathing on the marker does leave a bad feeling.
ReplyDeleteBrushing a marker should be fine and only when a driver hits the marker post full frontal should a penalty be imposed.
Whilst tyre pressures are a good tool for the C of C to use to stop certain classes at a particular spot on the trial, a tyre pressure not checked at the bottom of every hill where there is a limit it is pointless, leaving the competitors to set there own tyre pressure when there a restriction can result in up to 8lbs in variations between cars.
The idea of a blanket tyre limit I cant get my head around.
Class 8 is dominating the winners rostrum so yes they should have a select limits on some hills, at the very least 20lbs whilst Class 7 should be at about 15lbs and the saloons free.
Any idea when a Class 2 too 7 last one a trial outright!!
Not sure about classes 2-7 Dave, but the northern was won overall byJames in class1,then before that the allen by Nick Cleal in class1,before that the hardy by yourself in class1, looking back a bit more the bovey was won by James again in ummm....class1, think we need to penalise these fwd cars a bit more too :-)
ReplyDeletewhen Class 1 start winning Wheelspin awards, then you can think about it! until then its clear to see that as a whole, things are not really in our favour.
ReplyDeleteI agree James,I was only jesting,I think the tyre pressure blanket applied by the Ilkley organisers was acceptable but not the pressures used on the day, personally I think class 0,1+2 should of had no limit,class 3,4 and 5 on 12, class 6 on 14,7 on 16 and 8 on 18,something along those lines anyway.But they DO need to be checked.
ReplyDeleteDave - the photos at Longside Wood are really very good. Bluebells frame the scene really very well.
ReplyDeletecheers
Mark
dont worry nick i was jesting to an extent too ;)
ReplyDeleteDidn't someone in a Green Golf win the Mechanics Trial outright a couple of months ago - with tyre pressures checked at every section ?
ReplyDeleteTo Simon R, and to Myke
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing your experiences: Saves a lot head scratching and wasted time and effort.
John.
After-thought for Carl:
ReplyDeleteUsing the same carb, or a different set-up?