just doing a bit to make others aware of this option? If you read Practical Perormance Car magazine (which everyone herein ought to, as they run articles on sorting trials cars) then the Bike carb setup has had an article written up about it..(and Bogg Bros, who produce very nice manifolds, etc).. Such is the power of the weber name, and its reputation, that a lot of folk get hung up with the whole thing......they are nowadays very pricey bits of kit.... I really ought to have follwed Simon Woodall's advice and gone fuel injection, with mappable ecu like megasquirt,or similar..after all, the Rapids engine is similar to the FWD skodas ' powerunit..its the same basis, etc.and fuel injection stuff is used in these? however, since I have only just got the better of PC's, an ECU, laptop, and sensors really are currently out of my league. but whilst we're on the subject, I wonder how a Ford 10hp sidevalve would respond to fuel injection? would an electric water pump sort many overheating probs? or are we all to shun modern technology on old motors?
Hi Alastair, Any info on Bogg Bros available on Internet ? Otherwise a contact name / number / address would be very welcome. Glad to see you're still "at it". See you on The Edinburgh ? SimonR
probably top side of 짙600, for what amounted to a 'turnkey' job. ie, I took the car into them.....provided an old skodas 136 ally manifold, for the flange, to save time...other wise they have to get one laser-cut....and a new throttle cable. bearing in mind, I have known and dealt with Boggs for........over 25 years...they are (relatively) local to me.....I was actually offered a chance to buy before they got to the VAT threshold.........so I may be biased, but.. they provided...a checked-out set of Yamaha R1 carbs, with linkages....a long pipercross filter....a fuel-king pressure regulator (needed because bike carbs cant take any sort of fuel pressure..they're normally gravity-fed)......a custom-made set of inlet manifolds (its an 8 port head)....custom-made trumpets (inside filter )....fully sorted throttle linkages...choke linkages...fuel lines/tees etc.....they like an electric pump....plus setting up on the rolling road, courtesy of David Bogg, the tuning mastermind.....didn't help finding my cam timing was out, did it?......... the manifolds are the major labour cost...much cutting and shutting done...especially on engines like Pug 205GT(not i, the carbs replace it)....... manifold length can be played around with...depends on room available.... they quote a price of around 짙180 for a set of manifolds....carbs can be found for around 짙40 a throw......much work can be done at home.....but I hadn't time, so I treated myself....after all, the car I got for nowt! anyways, a turnkey job for around 짙700 incl vat..or thereabouts, compares very well with a twin 40 or 45 weber setup..fitted? outcome? well, the bike carbs flow as much as the webers, right to the top.....however, where they win out over fixed choke carbs is, they are variable choke. hence huge improvements in low speed torque. now..if I tire of the skoda..or it falls apart...I might consider fitting my cannon with the 136-type engine from one of the FWD skodas, via a Ford or other 'box.....tis the same engine.....with the carbs on it. changes to the working angle can be done by Boggs....tis but a cut and bit of welding. the 136 motor is incredibly lightweight, for old technology...VW had nothing like it when they took skoda over! thinking of trying a setup on the Liege, Simon? if so, check with Boggs because if the engine is small, they might have ideas as to which set of carbs to use....they also favour Honda Blackbird carbs......all rather academic really.
Thanks Alastair, Very interesting, and I agree with your comments regarding the Skoda engine. I was always very happy with mine in Excalibur, with the mods made it pulled like a donkey. My little Reliant unit is similar in that it offers a very light all up weight, (it's also an 8 port non crossflow by the way ). One area I would like to address is the Inlet Manifold design which is awful and the idea of bike carbs on a new manifold is one I had mulled over, but where to go for the manifold was the question ??? Now I know ! I see on their web site that they have previously done some Reliants, which is also encouraging. I'm going to contact them later. Thanks again, Simon
01944 738234 will get an answer....unless the greyhound (ret'd) gets to the phone first..then its anybody's guess! Bogg Bros is a strictly rural concern. they will do their level best to help you....but some get uptite because they're a bit forthright about whether one's personal ideas are feasible/will work/ are possible. Old man David (Dad) is an ace tuning expert of the old school.......I would be surprised if they have an email address yet.....at some point, one of the brothers will get their laptop fired up.....until then its the ol' dog 'n bone! Dad is a weber expert......an SU expert....and is equally happy fettling a ten horse Ford sidevalve....or a full house GM 2 litre...race, road, rally, trials..(he's getting used to my..er...odd demands.)...he's retired, but wont go away! lovely chap...as they all are! for the reliant I would have thought a smaller set of bike carbs might do the trick?..... anyways Simon.....if you visit them, there's zilch mobile signals, no bus service..unless you wai t for the school bus....and a B'''' long walk to the nearest civilisation. so, if you need any fetching 'n carrying done, I'll be happy to oblige.
Fuel injection has to be direcrly into the intake for each cylinder, as i undestand it. Injecting a Ford sidevalve would mean a port reversal mod or better still an OHIV head. If it gives better umph than a blower then I can run in Class 7 with my Dellow food for thought.
Hey Mark - Why not. You could also have a programmable ECU. Then you could use a laptop to build up a database of the mapping for each individual hill. Power for some, torque for others etc. Then while the bouncer is doing the tyres the driver can plug the laptop in and download the mapping at the start of each section.
Should be great. If you put tranducers on the steering of your Dellow and some tilt sensors you could get the system to automatically regulate the throttle at the top of BH2!
Only issue likeley to be the eligibility of the OHIV head in class 7. If that can be sorted I reckon its go.
yep, you might larf, but.......... for twin port inlets like sidevalvers...se Practical Performance Car mag reference their article(s) on A-series tuning, and comments on fuel injecting siamesed inlet ports. it IS possible, using two injectors per inlet...fired at correct intervals. some robbing occurs, but the laptop is likely to dial this out...sort of! further thinking.....I recall someone drilling holes in the cylinder head, to fit twin plugs..one over the piston....using tube welded in to seal water jacket...... with that in mind...why not go further, and drill( and weld tube,e tc) directly into cylinder head, for ''direct injection''?? (didn't Mitsubishi use that idea on their recent petrol engines?) for a dellow (my dream machine!) with a sidevalver....especially a 10 hp job....I'd do what I've done with the 10hp on my cannon.....simply do some grinding on the transfer ports...8 hp head.....long-reach plugs, with special spacers, to lower plug tip into chamber.....twing 1 1/8" SU's..or anything similar.....and get rid of the points ignition....I use Nology Hotwire plug leads, which drastically alter the character of the spark generated at the plug. lots of crankcase breathing improvements....small alternator...etc....maybe even an electric water pump, to save HP and improve cooling when there-s little airflow?? anyhow, when my 10hp was set up on the rolling road at Boggs, we de-tuned it to give around 42brake at the wheels. (David Bogg used to race these in the '50's and was impressed with the power and tractability.) balancing is next thing to do...and I'd like to fit a Suzuki van/jeep gearbox too!
Help! I'm getting a headache reading these, I have trouble resetting the trip meter. I'm just grateful when mine starts at Section Begins board, let alone clean it. Think I'll take up fishing, anyone got a scaffold pole I'll make a rod.
I was only half joking. I reckon it would be interesting to put fuel injection, programmable ECU etc on a side valve Dellow as I believe it would still stay in class 7.
Indeed, Michael......if fule injection can be made to work on a X-flow, why not try technology on other things? after all, many of (for example) a sidevalve's innefficiencies stemmed from the fuel supply and ignition, as from the tortuous path it all took? I recall reading some time back, that there are a bunch of people tuning and (racing?) old sidevalve motorcycles like BSA's M21(?) and the big Norton sidevalve singles...and they're getting phenominal, if different, results from their efforts. One of the assets they had available was a shed-load of technical info acquired by a swiss memeber of their group....who had somehow got hold of the specifications, etc, developed by Harley-Davidson following WW2. for their sidevalve Vee-twin racers. Apparently H-D threw several millions of dollars at research and developement? now I wonder if these flathead guys might share some information....?????
all this talk of programable e c u who was it who had one on the first section of the tamar last year ,tecnical advances are all well and good but relibilty and simplicty must be a consideration
yet they have been around for long enough to be reliable...certainly as reliable as conventional mechanical methods of engine control? Simon Woodall certainly has proved the value of an ecu and fuel injection.....I suspect it has not 'taken off' in the trials world, due to the relative age of most competing machinery? certainly a programmable ecu controlling fuel injection and ignition will provide the near perfect fuelling and ignition advance under ALL engine /vehicle conditions...a 'holy grail' for those stuck with carbs and points ign?? something which I have discovered regarding electronic engine components, in my case, ignition modules, is the definate need for extra cooling air to be passed through these devices. many 'production' cars with magic boxes, have them specifically positioned within the engine bay, so as to recieve a thorough cooling! so, much as a PC or laptop needs cooling fans, so may these components, if located in a strange position, or within a different vehicle. I have found this when using Skoda Favorit ign modules in the rear-engined Rapid, whose engine bay lacks the cool airstream of the FWD Favorit Computer processor fans stuck to the box are a help, and cheap too. worth a consideration??
In my brief description of my bike carb fitment....I referred to my carbs as being from a Yamaha R1.......not being an afficionado of bike carbs, it seems, whilst they were to be the original fitment, they have a choke diameter of 40mm.....Boggs considered that to be somewhat too large for my 1300cc's of Czech power...so used a carb set from a Honda Fireblade!!!!!!!!!! it doesn't really go like a Honda Fireblade...which is a blessing as they tend to spend a lot of time on two wheels! but the honda carbs have a choke diameter of 36 (or is it 38)mm's...and are a perfect match for my engine (somewhere near production Fabia spec..or WAS) additional argument in favour of a bike carb setup...over something like a twin 40 or 45 Weber DCOE or DCD setup...........the webers, as they come in the box, simply have a lever on the end of the throttle spindle, for the new owner to arrange a throttle linkage, and choke linkage...(although 'kits' for these carbs, specifically for certain engines, will have linkages made up and supplied, but not by weber..but by the kit supplier)....bike carbs tend to come complete with a built-in throttle and choke linkage.......all ready to attach your relevant cables to...ie, one attachment point for throttle cable, one for choke...all the rest of the action is supplied already fitted to the carb sets. someone once queried the balancing act needed...well, for the bike carbs, one simply attaches one's Carbalancer to the 'master' carb (the one with the external idle speed adjustment control on), take a reading, then go to each of the others in turn, and adjust their own adjusting screws accordingly.....nothing has to be unbolted, separated or anything (unlike twin SU's??)..takes about 2 minutes, honest. for SIMON ROBSON...I recently chatted to the Bogg Bros...they said you'd been in touch.....for your Reliant engine they suggest a carb set from a 600cc yam (or honda?) to be absolutely ideal for what you need....far better, more accurate fuelling than a single SU....... however....I must explain the situation at Bogg Bros,...which some may find odd, possibly unacceptable in this dya and age..but with which I wholeheartedly agree.....the fabrication work for the carb sets is done by one Bogg brother....with Dad doing the rolling road tuning.....so there is a finite limit as to what this one guy can achieve in a week......he reckons at least a day and a half to make the manifolds, fitting, etc.... at the moment, he has recieved far more work than he can comfortably cope with....being 'fully booked' at least until October......such is the power oadvertising, word-of-mouth, and magasine articles! In fact he has suspended advertising because it brings in TOO MUCH WORK...too many 'enquiries' which stop him working! He is reluctant to have an email address for this reason...he can barely cope with the popularity! why not get hired help in? well, Bogg Bros are perfectionists, renowned for it in competition circles....and on talking to them, I discover they are reluctant to hire out this work, because of 'quality control' problems.....ie, lack of guarentees that a hired hand will apply the same commitment to quality as they themselves do...as they say, when showing off a manifold setup for a Pinto, to replace the fuel injection system....all gleaming and highly polished....they would be proud to show off that workmanship on their own cars......... customers
A few more things to ponder: Steve Kenny already has a bike carb on his Liege. Peter Davis showed me a fuel injector setup he was working on for the factory car. Has he progressed this, I wonder? I have long since ditched my twin SUs in favour of a downdraught Weber 34 ICH on the high compression 850 in my own Liege. I had the car checked on a rolling road and it gave over 40 bhp at the rear wheels, 43 bhp was the best we saw. I don't know how that compares with the output with the SUs, as I never actually had it checked with them fitted. My carb was originally spec'd for a Ford Sierra 1.3. I had already tried and discarded a 32 ICH (Fiesta 1.1) as I felt it restricted the engine at the top end. I was told a 34 mm carb would not work, but it certainly does, actually a good improvement. Surprisingly, the rolling road work proved the jetting was almost perfect out of the box. The main jet was increased very slightly as it was weak at the top end. The car pulls much better lower down than with the SUs. They looked superb on their separate ally manifolds but took up far too much room in the tiny engine bay - I had to remove them to check the battery or adjust the fan belt :-(. The "Rebel Racer" Reliant 850 engines, made by Hans Kirimaa for his mini stock car series are dyno checked to give the same output (I believe it's 52 bhp at the crank) and are then sealed for racing. My engine is very close to his specification (although it wasn't actually built by Hans) so the figure of 40 bhp at the wheels probably puts it somewhere in the same league. Superb little engines! All we need is better tyres. btw, Simon, didn't you buy a blower? Paul Wheatley
another point often missed in the search for a carb...a quad set of bike carbs can be incredibly compact.....much more so than side or down draught webers....or even twin SU's...although Boggs have shown incredible workmanship squeezing sets into FWD cars like Peugeots....filters being the main problem....the carbs can be set very close to the head......which apparently doesn't seem to affect torque....unlike older carb setups, where long inlets were deemed necessary to improve torque low down the rev range....
just doing a bit to make others aware of this option? If you read Practical Perormance Car magazine (which everyone herein ought to, as they run articles on sorting trials cars) then the Bike carb setup has had an article written up about it..(and Bogg Bros, who produce very nice manifolds, etc).. Such is the power of the weber name, and its reputation, that a lot of folk get hung up with the whole thing......they are nowadays very pricey bits of kit.... I really ought to have follwed Simon Woodall's advice and gone fuel injection, with mappable ecu like megasquirt,or similar..after all, the Rapids engine is similar to the FWD skodas ' powerunit..its the same basis, etc.and fuel injection stuff is used in these? however, since I have only just got the better of PC's, an ECU, laptop, and sensors really are currently out of my league. but whilst we're on the subject, I wonder how a Ford 10hp sidevalve would respond to fuel injection? would an electric water pump sort many overheating probs? or are we all to shun modern technology on old motors?
ReplyDeleteHi Alastair, Any info on Bogg Bros available on Internet ? Otherwise a contact name / number / address would be very welcome. Glad to see you're still "at it". See you on The Edinburgh ? SimonR
ReplyDeleteActually have found them now, but can you give me an indication of the cost of your inlet manifold please ? Ta again, SimonR
ReplyDeleteprobably top side of 짙600, for what amounted to a 'turnkey' job. ie, I took the car into them.....provided an old skodas 136 ally manifold, for the flange, to save time...other wise they have to get one laser-cut....and a new throttle cable. bearing in mind, I have known and dealt with Boggs for........over 25 years...they are (relatively) local to me.....I was actually offered a chance to buy before they got to the VAT threshold.........so I may be biased, but.. they provided...a checked-out set of Yamaha R1 carbs, with linkages....a long pipercross filter....a fuel-king pressure regulator (needed because bike carbs cant take any sort of fuel pressure..they're normally gravity-fed)......a custom-made set of inlet manifolds (its an 8 port head)....custom-made trumpets (inside filter )....fully sorted throttle linkages...choke linkages...fuel lines/tees etc.....they like an electric pump....plus setting up on the rolling road, courtesy of David Bogg, the tuning mastermind.....didn't help finding my cam timing was out, did it?......... the manifolds are the major labour cost...much cutting and shutting done...especially on engines like Pug 205GT(not i, the carbs replace it)....... manifold length can be played around with...depends on room available.... they quote a price of around 짙180 for a set of manifolds....carbs can be found for around 짙40 a throw......much work can be done at home.....but I hadn't time, so I treated myself....after all, the car I got for nowt! anyways, a turnkey job for around 짙700 incl vat..or thereabouts, compares very well with a twin 40 or 45 weber setup..fitted? outcome? well, the bike carbs flow as much as the webers, right to the top.....however, where they win out over fixed choke carbs is, they are variable choke. hence huge improvements in low speed torque. now..if I tire of the skoda..or it falls apart...I might consider fitting my cannon with the 136-type engine from one of the FWD skodas, via a Ford or other 'box.....tis the same engine.....with the carbs on it. changes to the working angle can be done by Boggs....tis but a cut and bit of welding. the 136 motor is incredibly lightweight, for old technology...VW had nothing like it when they took skoda over! thinking of trying a setup on the Liege, Simon? if so, check with Boggs because if the engine is small, they might have ideas as to which set of carbs to use....they also favour Honda Blackbird carbs......all rather academic really.
ReplyDeleteThanks Alastair, Very interesting, and I agree with your comments regarding the Skoda engine. I was always very happy with mine in Excalibur, with the mods made it pulled like a donkey. My little Reliant unit is similar in that it offers a very light all up weight, (it's also an 8 port non crossflow by the way ). One area I would like to address is the Inlet Manifold design which is awful and the idea of bike carbs on a new manifold is one I had mulled over, but where to go for the manifold was the question ??? Now I know ! I see on their web site that they have previously done some Reliants, which is also encouraging. I'm going to contact them later. Thanks again, Simon
ReplyDelete01944 738234 will get an answer....unless the greyhound (ret'd) gets to the phone first..then its anybody's guess! Bogg Bros is a strictly rural concern. they will do their level best to help you....but some get uptite because they're a bit forthright about whether one's personal ideas are feasible/will work/ are possible. Old man David (Dad) is an ace tuning expert of the old school.......I would be surprised if they have an email address yet.....at some point, one of the brothers will get their laptop fired up.....until then its the ol' dog 'n bone! Dad is a weber expert......an SU expert....and is equally happy fettling a ten horse Ford sidevalve....or a full house GM 2 litre...race, road, rally, trials..(he's getting used to my..er...odd demands.)...he's retired, but wont go away! lovely chap...as they all are! for the reliant I would have thought a smaller set of bike carbs might do the trick?..... anyways Simon.....if you visit them, there's zilch mobile signals, no bus service..unless you wai t for the school bus....and a B'''' long walk to the nearest civilisation. so, if you need any fetching 'n carrying done, I'll be happy to oblige.
ReplyDeleteFuel injection has to be direcrly into the intake for each cylinder, as i undestand it. Injecting a Ford sidevalve would mean a port reversal mod or better still an OHIV head. If it gives better umph than a blower then I can run in Class 7 with my Dellow food for thought.
ReplyDeleteHey Mark - Why not. You could also have a programmable ECU. Then you could use a laptop to build up a database of the mapping for each individual hill. Power for some, torque for others etc. Then while the bouncer is doing the tyres the driver can plug the laptop in and download the mapping at the start of each section.
ReplyDeleteShould be great. If you put tranducers on the steering of your Dellow and some tilt sensors you could get the system to automatically regulate the throttle at the top of BH2!
Only issue likeley to be the eligibility of the OHIV head in class 7. If that can be sorted I reckon its go.
Michael
yep, you might larf, but.......... for twin port inlets like sidevalvers...se Practical Performance Car mag reference their article(s) on A-series tuning, and comments on fuel injecting siamesed inlet ports. it IS possible, using two injectors per inlet...fired at correct intervals. some robbing occurs, but the laptop is likely to dial this out...sort of! further thinking.....I recall someone drilling holes in the cylinder head, to fit twin plugs..one over the piston....using tube welded in to seal water jacket...... with that in mind...why not go further, and drill( and weld tube,e tc) directly into cylinder head, for ''direct injection''?? (didn't Mitsubishi use that idea on their recent petrol engines?) for a dellow (my dream machine!) with a sidevalver....especially a 10 hp job....I'd do what I've done with the 10hp on my cannon.....simply do some grinding on the transfer ports...8 hp head.....long-reach plugs, with special spacers, to lower plug tip into chamber.....twing 1 1/8" SU's..or anything similar.....and get rid of the points ignition....I use Nology Hotwire plug leads, which drastically alter the character of the spark generated at the plug. lots of crankcase breathing improvements....small alternator...etc....maybe even an electric water pump, to save HP and improve cooling when there-s little airflow?? anyhow, when my 10hp was set up on the rolling road at Boggs, we de-tuned it to give around 42brake at the wheels. (David Bogg used to race these in the '50's and was impressed with the power and tractability.) balancing is next thing to do...and I'd like to fit a Suzuki van/jeep gearbox too!
ReplyDeletehelp, cant edit, but....after comments onPPC mag's articles...please insert FOR FORD SIDEVALVE.. at the 'for further thinking ' bit
ReplyDeleteHelp! I'm getting a headache reading these, I have trouble resetting the trip meter. I'm just grateful when mine starts at Section Begins board, let alone clean it. Think I'll take up fishing, anyone got a scaffold pole I'll make a rod.
ReplyDeletehow d'you find time to fish? seeing as you're busy stuffing beetle underpinnings into anything that moves?
ReplyDeleteI was only half joking. I reckon it would be interesting to put fuel injection, programmable ECU etc on a side valve Dellow as I believe it would still stay in class 7.
ReplyDeleteIndeed, Michael......if fule injection can be made to work on a X-flow, why not try technology on other things? after all, many of (for example) a sidevalve's innefficiencies stemmed from the fuel supply and ignition, as from the tortuous path it all took? I recall reading some time back, that there are a bunch of people tuning and (racing?) old sidevalve motorcycles like BSA's M21(?) and the big Norton sidevalve singles...and they're getting phenominal, if different, results from their efforts. One of the assets they had available was a shed-load of technical info acquired by a swiss memeber of their group....who had somehow got hold of the specifications, etc, developed by Harley-Davidson following WW2. for their sidevalve Vee-twin racers. Apparently H-D threw several millions of dollars at research and developement? now I wonder if these flathead guys might share some information....?????
ReplyDeleteall this talk of programable e c u who was it who had one on the first section of the tamar last year ,tecnical advances are all well and good but relibilty and simplicty must be a consideration
ReplyDeleteyet they have been around for long enough to be reliable...certainly as reliable as conventional mechanical methods of engine control? Simon Woodall certainly has proved the value of an ecu and fuel injection.....I suspect it has not 'taken off' in the trials world, due to the relative age of most competing machinery? certainly a programmable ecu controlling fuel injection and ignition will provide the near perfect fuelling and ignition advance under ALL engine /vehicle conditions...a 'holy grail' for those stuck with carbs and points ign?? something which I have discovered regarding electronic engine components, in my case, ignition modules, is the definate need for extra cooling air to be passed through these devices. many 'production' cars with magic boxes, have them specifically positioned within the engine bay, so as to recieve a thorough cooling! so, much as a PC or laptop needs cooling fans, so may these components, if located in a strange position, or within a different vehicle. I have found this when using Skoda Favorit ign modules in the rear-engined Rapid, whose engine bay lacks the cool airstream of the FWD Favorit Computer processor fans stuck to the box are a help, and cheap too. worth a consideration??
ReplyDeletefor 'reliability and simplicity', might we read 'what we are familiar with?'
ReplyDeleteIn my brief description of my bike carb fitment....I referred to my carbs as being from a Yamaha R1.......not being an afficionado of bike carbs, it seems, whilst they were to be the original fitment, they have a choke diameter of 40mm.....Boggs considered that to be somewhat too large for my 1300cc's of Czech power...so used a carb set from a Honda Fireblade!!!!!!!!!! it doesn't really go like a Honda Fireblade...which is a blessing as they tend to spend a lot of time on two wheels! but the honda carbs have a choke diameter of 36 (or is it 38)mm's...and are a perfect match for my engine (somewhere near production Fabia spec..or WAS) additional argument in favour of a bike carb setup...over something like a twin 40 or 45 Weber DCOE or DCD setup...........the webers, as they come in the box, simply have a lever on the end of the throttle spindle, for the new owner to arrange a throttle linkage, and choke linkage...(although 'kits' for these carbs, specifically for certain engines, will have linkages made up and supplied, but not by weber..but by the kit supplier)....bike carbs tend to come complete with a built-in throttle and choke linkage.......all ready to attach your relevant cables to...ie, one attachment point for throttle cable, one for choke...all the rest of the action is supplied already fitted to the carb sets. someone once queried the balancing act needed...well, for the bike carbs, one simply attaches one's Carbalancer to the 'master' carb (the one with the external idle speed adjustment control on), take a reading, then go to each of the others in turn, and adjust their own adjusting screws accordingly.....nothing has to be unbolted, separated or anything (unlike twin SU's??)..takes about 2 minutes, honest. for SIMON ROBSON...I recently chatted to the Bogg Bros...they said you'd been in touch.....for your Reliant engine they suggest a carb set from a 600cc yam (or honda?) to be absolutely ideal for what you need....far better, more accurate fuelling than a single SU....... however....I must explain the situation at Bogg Bros,...which some may find odd, possibly unacceptable in this dya and age..but with which I wholeheartedly agree.....the fabrication work for the carb sets is done by one Bogg brother....with Dad doing the rolling road tuning.....so there is a finite limit as to what this one guy can achieve in a week......he reckons at least a day and a half to make the manifolds, fitting, etc.... at the moment, he has recieved far more work than he can comfortably cope with....being 'fully booked' at least until October......such is the power oadvertising, word-of-mouth, and magasine articles! In fact he has suspended advertising because it brings in TOO MUCH WORK...too many 'enquiries' which stop him working! He is reluctant to have an email address for this reason...he can barely cope with the popularity! why not get hired help in? well, Bogg Bros are perfectionists, renowned for it in competition circles....and on talking to them, I discover they are reluctant to hire out this work, because of 'quality control' problems.....ie, lack of guarentees that a hired hand will apply the same commitment to quality as they themselves do...as they say, when showing off a manifold setup for a Pinto, to replace the fuel injection system....all gleaming and highly polished....they would be proud to show off that workmanship on their own cars......... customers
ReplyDeleteA few more things to ponder: Steve Kenny already has a bike carb on his Liege. Peter Davis showed me a fuel injector setup he was working on for the factory car. Has he progressed this, I wonder? I have long since ditched my twin SUs in favour of a downdraught Weber 34 ICH on the high compression 850 in my own Liege. I had the car checked on a rolling road and it gave over 40 bhp at the rear wheels, 43 bhp was the best we saw. I don't know how that compares with the output with the SUs, as I never actually had it checked with them fitted. My carb was originally spec'd for a Ford Sierra 1.3. I had already tried and discarded a 32 ICH (Fiesta 1.1) as I felt it restricted the engine at the top end. I was told a 34 mm carb would not work, but it certainly does, actually a good improvement. Surprisingly, the rolling road work proved the jetting was almost perfect out of the box. The main jet was increased very slightly as it was weak at the top end. The car pulls much better lower down than with the SUs. They looked superb on their separate ally manifolds but took up far too much room in the tiny engine bay - I had to remove them to check the battery or adjust the fan belt :-(. The "Rebel Racer" Reliant 850 engines, made by Hans Kirimaa for his mini stock car series are dyno checked to give the same output (I believe it's 52 bhp at the crank) and are then sealed for racing. My engine is very close to his specification (although it wasn't actually built by Hans) so the figure of 40 bhp at the wheels probably puts it somewhere in the same league. Superb little engines! All we need is better tyres. btw, Simon, didn't you buy a blower? Paul Wheatley
ReplyDeleteanother point often missed in the search for a carb...a quad set of bike carbs can be incredibly compact.....much more so than side or down draught webers....or even twin SU's...although Boggs have shown incredible workmanship squeezing sets into FWD cars like Peugeots....filters being the main problem....the carbs can be set very close to the head......which apparently doesn't seem to affect torque....unlike older carb setups, where long inlets were deemed necessary to improve torque low down the rev range....
ReplyDelete