Saturday 9 June 2012
Passenger seating
Whats the deal with passengers seating rules. I thought the passengers must remain in the seated position. I have seen a few videos floating around with passengers almost climbing out of the cars to transfer their weight. They are certainly not seated, and am sure this breaks the rules. Apart from that it is very dangerous. What are other peoples views on this please. Matt Denny
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The one photo that has been most prominent recently is the winner of the Ilkley trial. When the issue was raised with the organisers the response was that it should have been noted by the section observers, ie marshals. After the event is too late to complain. It is good that the topic has been raised and can be used to better imfo people in future. It was not raised by officials at the time because many were willing but not expert guests from non-trialling clubs who did not know the rules in detail. This has been recognised and can now be dealt with.
ReplyDeleteIt is true that the only parts of a passenger that are allowed to be outside the passenger area are arms and hands.
On a similar topic, what is the general feeling about all cars in each class setting off in turn instead of spread throughout the entry? I don't mind what class order we set off in but if a section cuts up badly the early runners get a favourable advantage over others who may be in the same class but fifty cars behind?
The passenger situation can easily be resolved by wearing seat belts - after all many of our Sections are public highways anyway! :-)
ReplyDeleteI would say most trials group the entry by class. I think you are right regarding the competitive aspect John but when its mixed up you get to meet different people and I like that.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with seat belts alot of ealy cars dont need them also the footage of the said veichle i thought he might as well have got out and stood on the spare wheel as he was nearly there.
ReplyDeleteMost cars with passengers throwing themselves around stupidly arnt competive....
ReplyDeleteI've put my weight to good use in the back of a rwd saloon but usually it's more a case of putting the weight on the wheel without grip. It does make me laugh when I see passengers bouncing like demented fools all the way along a section!
Also in a 2 seater or special the amount of usefulness the passenger even hanging out of his her seat is limited
The issue about seating has just been covered on the MCC site. The unfortunate thing on the Ilkley is the instructions and experience of marshals. Marshals are so hard to come by that mistakes are inevitable. Perhaps more experienced competitors should have spoken to the person involved and pointed out the seating requirements.
ReplyDeleteOn the subject of not running with your class - its just the luck of the draw. Some sections may cut up and become more difficult whereas others may dry out and become easier. Its the same for everyone.
ReplyDeleteAre we not also covered by 4.1.11 in the Blue Book as well regarding 'Bouncing'? On the Northern we have tried to highlight various specific issues of marshalling (eg; footing by bike riders) in the past in our main letter to Section Controllers, asking them to specifically instruct their team on those issues. It is, however, quite hard to check exactly if those issues are passed on apart from monitoring any complains in our post trial feedback meetings. We issue a very comprehesive Section Controllers handbook but you have no control over the reading of it and also that some experienced marshals do also make mistakes. I had an issue on the Edinburgh a year or two ago regading footing at a Restart and the interpretation of the regulations by an experienced marshal was just plain wrong. I did try but got nowhere! I dont think this is just an Ilkley problem with inexperienced marshals and I am very certain Stan and his team will take this specific issue on board, will other clubs?
ReplyDeleteBaldrick, I meant no criticism of marshals or Clubs. Both have a difficult job. Perhaps it is time to take a commonsense view and say that the passengers bum should remain over the car seat and not rise above the side of the car. This can only apply to open 2 seat cars of course. What do you do about 4 seat saloons? Perhaps passengers to remain in the front seat.
ReplyDeleteAs far as running order goes the only totally fair way is by a draw for numbers, carried out by the club of course to enable programmes to be produced.
Is this all being a bit petty?
No problem Robin, I didnt take it as specific critiscism, rather as constructive advice and comment which shows the value of this kind of forum I think. In this particular case due to the location of the actual section, there would only have been a few competitors waiting to attack the section that could actually see it and may well have not seen the incident. It was only when the video was published that this was highlighted. However listening to the commentary ( unintentional I know!) on the videos there is concern expressed.
ReplyDeleteYes jeepmadmike
ReplyDeleteI Remember the good old days you could rock the Anglia Estate so hard from left to right that daylight would appear under alternate rear wheels & if that didn't work you could get the back to go up & down like a bucking bronco
Greg....
I have never head so much rubbish. Look at photos from the 70's and 80's passenger standing up and all over the place. This is a fun sport lets have some FUN. i was a spectator on Cracklington this year and one competitir in a Suzukui X90-yes another suzuki x90 was reading the newspaper. The spectors derided' come on put some effort in'. If Matt get his way I will be trialing with a blow up doll filled with sand!
ReplyDeleteWell good to see some sensible comments on this. As to running in class I think it is very much the luck of the draw. The last three big trials I have been a back marker. dosent really bother me. As to mudplugger2's comment I manage to have a lot of FUN trialing, but abide by the rules, after all they are there for a reason. If everybody started to do what they WANTED it would'nt be a classic trial but a free for all. I will leave you to have your fun with your blow up doll;)
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