Hello Trials Enthusiasts.
I'm trying to figure out how to include a trials section in a future American-style road rally. Over here in Massachusetts we know how to run navigational rallies using very accurate timing, but don't know anything about setting up a trial section.
One problem is that we classify cars based on how much navigational computer power they have, not by the engine size, tire type, or number of driven wheels. 4WD trucks with mud tires compete evenly with MX-5s and Hondas. Is it practical to run such a wide range of cars through the same section? Is there some sort of handicap system that could be used to level out the scores?
Thanks.
Doug.
Doug, Can you give us a clue about the sort of surfaces that are available, eg grass, mud, rocky tracks etc. Also what sort of gradient do you have? You can handicap the different cars by using re-starts and alternative routes. Meanwhile I have posted some AVI's somwewhere on the Net. When I remember where I will come back with the link as I think moving pictures will help you see what we do. Michael
ReplyDeleteDoug, The AVI video files are at www.idrive.com You access them by logging on as classicalgas and use the password trials. Michael
ReplyDeleteHi Michael. The roads here in New England are similar to those in England. Near Boston, practically everything is paved, and as you get further away there are more unpaved public roads. By the time you get to Vermont or Maine there are lots of places only suitable for 4WD trucks. There are some local "improved" (gravel) roads that might be OK; mostly they would be loose but not too steep. Locally there is also a small ski resort. I'm not sure what kind of gradient would be available but possibly 1 in 3. (How steep is a ski slope?) I haven't talked to the owner, but I think a single section with only a dozen or so cars might be a possibility. In April it could be pretty muddy. Also maybe the local Land Rover club (my brother's a member) might be able to point out suitable lanes. They're into pretending that they're English, so might be interested in trials... :*) I was thinking of using the same rating system you use in classic trials (1-8?), adding 4WD trucks and cars in there somewhere, maybe into class 8. Tires would still be unrestricted, but at this point it would all be for entertainment anyway. I would not like to start up a completely new set of rules--there's too much of that in motorsport already... If that classification system worked, I'd need a handicap for each class. Is there something like that already in use? Or do you just score the classes separately? If the latter, what sort of comparative scores would there be between the classes? Thanks for any suggestions. Doug.
ReplyDeleteDoug, There is a nice piece on scoring on Pat's ACTC site at http://www.ukmotorsport.com/actc/what.htm I think it's a problem making a trials section suitable for everyting from FWD cars on road tyres to 4wd's on knobbolies! I think you have to have a try out with a couple of cars to see how competitive your sections would be. To make a competitivve section:- Gradient - I think Simms is 1 - 2 3/4 Polished rock Mud Loose stones - if there aren't any find some and dump them on the track - this is called doctoring an is a regular feature on sections like Beggars Roost or Crackington which would otherwise not be competitive. A combination of the above on a sharp corner! Give the lesser cars a start by letting them have a run at the hill while making the competitive ones start on the gradient. Let the lesser classes run straight up while intreoducing a re-start for the higher orders. This should be on the very steepest bit.just before a step (say six inches) if there isn't one make it! Michael
ReplyDeleteHi Michael. I can tell you right now there aren't going to be any "steps" in this section! In looking over the stuff I can find on the web, it looks like this would be a production car trial sort of section. Probably on grass, with flags to mark the boundaries. I was thinking that maybe the thing to do would be to only have two classes: 2WD and 4WD, and have both run the same section but with a restart for the 4WD cars. This would tend to counteract the main difference between the cars while tending to level the scores. I'm confused about how the classes in classic trials are handled. I looked at some of the events that are posted and there doesn't seem to be a huge difference between the scores from one class to another. I would have thought that with specials, VW bugs, and current saloon cars all on the same section there would be a huge range of scores. Do all the cars run the exact same sections? Doug.
ReplyDeleteDoug, In a PCT all the cars run the same sections. In many Classic Trials the more competitive classes often have an alternative or extra section - a pretty tough one - just for them. Also it is normal for re-starts to be used as differential handicaps. You can have trials where fwd cars don't have any and class 8's have one on every section. My advise if your section is going to be on smooth grass, marked out by sticks like a pct. Front wheel drive - straight up Mark out a deviation just before a steep bit. 90 rt, 90 left, 90 left, 90 rt Competitors will then have to do a turn on a camber (make sure it isn't so much they tip over!!) Then put the rear wheel drives around this. Make the 4wd's stop and restart reight on the corner! Michael
ReplyDeleteIf you are creating an artificial section then your task actually becomes much easier. Mark out a section which is about one and a half times the width of the average vehicle which runs diagonally across the slope that you are using. Lay it out as a gentle curve, so that the gradient starts off leniently and gets progressively steeper towards the summit. It is best laid out right to left, so that the driver is always on the downhill side of the car ( this makes the car less easy to control and restricts the drivers view). This will be the main section for the majority of competitors. Give the least competitive cars a bit of a run, and the average group less so. As some point along the slope introduce a diversion which turns sharply uphill for a short distance and then turns sharply again to run horizontally back to the main route, with ideally another sharp turn where they rejoin. This will be the route for the more competitive vehicles. You final variation will be to introduce a "Stop and Restart" on the steepest portion of the diversion. Use four flags to mark out a box on the course which is about three-quarters the length of the average entrant in the class. Your most competitive class must then stop with at least two wheels (one axle) in the box, and then restart WITHOUT the car rolling backwards. We always imagine that the marshal has placed a matchbox behind the rear wheel, and if the vehicle crushes the box it has rolled back. As the vehicles that will be competing with be slightly different to those in the UK I would suggest that the classification is roughly as follows: Front engine RWD Sedans Front Wheel Drive Sedans and Sports Cars ( MG Midget, MX5 etc) Rear Engined Cars (VW Bugs, MR2, MGF) Modified Sedans (by being lightened e.g. Baja Bugs) 4x4 Sedans ( e.g. Audi) and 4x4 SUV's & Pick-Ups Off-Road Vehicles - Buggies, Jeep, Land Rover As the course is artificial, I would also introduce a rule we rarely use in the UK (where all our sections are bounded by natural features such as trees and hedges.) If a competing car touches one of the flags that mark the boundary then the car is deemed to have stopped at that point. This is particularly important at the diversion points because it forces the car to take the corner slowly and therefore loose momentum and with it traction. The tight turns on your diversion will also eliminate any advantage that the diff locks that some 4x4's have.
ReplyDeleteSimon Woodall - Clerk of the Course Clee Hills Trial
bsw_holdings@compuserve.com
Thanks. This is exactly what I was looking for. Now I need to scout out a good location... Doug.
ReplyDelete