Tuesday 20 March 2007

getting prepared for battle with an escort

Hi there - new member- Robbo (alan robinson)
 
Brief biog. previous life as international high performance Dinghy racing
                occupation sailmaker / musician
Done a couple of classic Monte's in a Mini - endurance rally -caterham
currently building a bike engined Phoenix for the Espania -Santiago in September. ( but I might do it in my Ginetta G27 yet mmm. --I'm definitely not doing it in our Isetta..!! and after last week end I'm never going in my son's Spitfire ever again..)
 
Was one of those fools in the yellow capri on the Exeter and the Cotswold clouds ( passenger) - you remember the little guy whose mood swung between embarrased to fear.. 
 
Having convinced my wife how much she will enjoy this fantastic trialling , and not wishing to 'rough up' her primrose frogeye , I have purchased a Mk. 1 Escort and would like to know
a. where and how do I get the regulations around which to modify anything
b. can anyone give me a few tips and tell me stuff like - engine/box/diff. wheel sizes etc.
 
Cheers and thanks to Mr. Leete so far - so good

12 comments:

  1. Hi Robbo,

    You need the MSA 'blue book'. This contains the full regulations. To
    compete you need least a clubman non-race MSA licence. The blue book
    comes with your licence. You can buy the blue book separately but it is
    more expensive than a licence! They have a website here:
    . You are limited as to what tyres are allowed.
    You can download a full list from the Association of classic trials
    clubs(ACTC) website

    From memory the main requirements are:
    Suspension can be lifted but must remain the same type - e.g. you can't
    fit coils in place of leaves. If you have leaves you can't have less
    than the standard number of leaves, though they can be thinner.
    You cannot move the suspension mounting points.
    No limited slip/locking diffs. The scrutineers will check!
    Engine must be of a type originally fitted to a Mk1 Escort (x-flow or
    Pinto) though you can modify it.
    You can still compete if you modify the car beyond the permitted limits
    but you end up in a higher class.

    Have fun :-)

    Les



    alanrobborobinson wrote:
    >
    > *getting prepared for battle with an escort*
    >
    >
    > *Reply*
    >
    >
    > *Reply to Sender*
    >
    > *Recommend*
    >
    > Message 1 in Discussion
    >
    > From: alanrobborobinson
    >
    >
    >
    > Hi there - new member- Robbo (alan robinson)
    >
    > Brief biog. previous life as international high performance Dinghy
    > racing
    > occupation sailmaker / musician
    > Done a couple of classic Monte's in a Mini - endurance rally -caterham
    > currently building a bike engined Phoenix for the Espania
    > -Santiago in September. ( but I might do it in my Ginetta G27 yet
    > mmm. --I'm definitely not doing it in our Isetta..!! and after
    > last week end I'm never going in my son's Spitfire ever again..)
    >
    > Was one of those fools in the yellow capri on the Exeter and the
    > Cotswold clouds ( passenger) - you remember the little guy whose
    > mood swung between embarrased to fear..
    >
    > Having convinced my wife how much she will enjoy this fantastic
    > trialling , and not wishing to 'rough up' her primrose frogeye , I
    > have purchased a Mk. 1 Escort and would like to know
    > a. where and how do I get the regulations around which to modify
    > anything
    > b. can anyone give me a few tips and tell me stuff like -
    > engine/box/diff. wheel sizes etc.
    >
    > Cheers and thanks to Mr. Leete so far - so good
    >
    >
    >
    >

    </http://groups.msn

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  2. Actually I have to disagree a little with what Les said, in that you don't need a competition license (or blue book) if you only want to do the 3 MCC classic trial events (The Exeter, The Lands End and The Edinburgh), as these are closed to club events, OK ? Nevertheless if you want to compete in the excellent events within the ACTC championship, then you probably will want to get your MSA license. The ACTC approved tyre list can be seen on the web site and if you follow this you will be pretty much OK for MCC events. What Les says about suspension is spot-on, and engines substantially too, although if you had one and wanted to fit it, then MK 1's were also fitted with the Twin Cam unless memory decieves me. Carburation, inlet and exhaust manifolds are free, (but the exhaust must not be overly noisy). Diameter of wheels has to remain at a size which was offered on that vehicle as manufacturers standard option..   Finally, ...... oh dear, .... you've sucumbed to the temptations of the Peter Davis !! I hope that's a Hyabusa engine you are fitting in the Phoenix !!!   Good luck, will we see you out on The Lands End Trial at Easter ? SimonR  

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  3. I would love to do the MCC in a car, even a passenger ( Red MG?) but still serving my apprenceship on a motorcycle (nearly 20 years - can't believe it) . All those problems changing halfshafts in the middle of the night! Enterprise, Sonata and now a Laser super low performance dinghy, as I live by the sea.

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  4. Good to see someone new having a go Robbo - well done.  If you've missed the Land's End entry why not give the Kyrle a go?  They have a Class 0 for newbies or you could enter Class 3 as with the Capri. Or why not do both?    On the engine front the regulations certainly used to say that you could have any engine of the same configuration and manufacture as the original ie instead of a Kent you could have any 4 cylinder in line Ford engine, mounted the same way round as the original .  Hence the large 'Type 4' engined Beetles in Class 6.  All sorts of things have been tried in Escorts but, other than the odd twin cam, the Kent seems to be by far the most successful. Just a little tip - although practically every Escort seems to be entered in trials as a 1600cc many of them are not 1600cc, especially the high performing ones...

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  5. Joining the MCC has to be job one as I see you haven`t done that yet. You can download an aplication form from http://www.themotorcyclingclub.org.uk/documents/MCC_membership_application.pdf Then you will receive "regs" for their three big trials, and you can sign  up for the ACTC Series.   Their form is at http://www.actc.org.uk/news/ACTC%20ENTRY%20FORM%202007.pdf Next step is to follow Ian's advice, and come down to the Forest of Dean on 22nd April.   Come to the start which is at Symond Yat Services  (A40 Northbound) from about 08:00am ish.   Introduce yourself to some or any of the Escort drivers, most of whom will have read this, and ask them the questions.   Most people are quite happy to tell you what they`ve done to make their car work.  Although they may be reluctant to reveal their latest demon tweak, you should get the basics.   Bring your wife along, and you can fool her into thinking that all trials are run in glorious sunshine in beautiful countryside.    The Kyrle is one of the few trials with a lunch break, find out where that is, and it will give you another chance to chat whilst the drivers are perhaps a little more relaxed than they might be at the start.

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  6. Hi Alan

    The Blue Book will give you the actual rules which might be worth a tenner - unless they are available on the ACTC site.

    The ford diff is the main source of concern with the axle in that they break. Guys - or should that be men - with proper power even more so. There is a needle roller Fack unit available or modifying a 4 planet transit diff which can be made to fit. Carl Talbot did have some machined up in a batch. The rest is pretty strong although the OHC gearbox is next upgrade to the OHV unit.

    A higher diff ratio of somewhere between 4.1/4.44/4.7 is a major bonus. I've no idea which is the one though.

    13inch wheels only - MX pattern tyres are good. 165/13 or 175/13 remolds. TJ Tyres can probably help here and advertise in the ACTC Restart mag.

    That is about all I know! A good working heater is the next big plus!!!

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  7. I thought the 5 speed wasn't ok for some reason - not sure why now apart from it wasn't fitted to an RWD production Escort.

    Pintos are usually out of favour for their weight but if your aim is the finish an MCC style event if will not be much of an issue.

    The back axle has a habit of breaking either the halfshafts or the diff. The two planet gears in the diff weld themselves onto the diff pin and then it goes bang. Hence the 4 planet transit mod or Julian Fack's needle roller unit. He has an advert in the ACTC's Restart magazine.

    Rally Design have some decent bits. They should know what fits an Escort axle - hopefully!

    Mark

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  8. Posted on behalf of David Malin -   mark do not bother going with the pinto it is to heavy and takes to much trouble to fit in the engine bay. first the weight compred to the crossflow is far to much to push up the hill and when you want to come down then it has a hell of a push. gravity as they say takes over and the rest is history. you will need tostrengthen the front end or it will collapse in the long term and fit heavier rated springs. you can cut aprox 2 lbs of weight off but it makes little difference. They work ok in a mark 2 sort of but are hopeless in a mark1. Now fitting use 1600 g/box but you have to cut the tunnel for the stick. cut the sump and square off the sloping peice move the electrics to suit make an exhaust to fit down the offside (do not use one of those cross over pieces) bash out the tunnel and numorous other things. In a mark2 a normal rad will fit in the proper place in a mark1 you have to cut the normal mounts and make new ones and getting in a mark 1 is an art. you will also suffer cooling problems and many other niggles and frustrations. I know I trialled one in both shells. save yourself the hassle and start the easy way.

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  9. A 5 speed box is wrong because the casing is not of a type ever fitted to an Escort. You can fit as many speeds as you like as long as it looks the same from outside. Also, I think you will find that Mr Fack will be no help whatsoever. There are loads of us with broken Fack diffs and no spares available to repair them. Go for a Colin Jeffreys or Carl Talbot one.

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  10. So far (famous last words coming up) we've had few problems using Redline heavyduty shockproof oil (the real heavyweight one) in an Escort axle.  Admittedly the car is lighter than an Escort, but we also use a bit of caution.    If we get one wheel spinning and it looks like we might gain another 6" up the hill, but the marker is 6ft away, on we've stopped on a PCT section and an exploratory blasting doesn't get us going, we stop, rather than sit there for a couple of hours.   Miller heavy duty gear oil is soon to be tested in the standard diff on a sporting trials car - that should really give it a work out.  If you see a wanted ad for a Suzuki axle, you'll know it didn't work . . .   Bri   (yeller Dutton)

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  11. Redline works well enough in my skoda transaxle...but is pricey if said item dumps its oil....   very red, it is too.

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  12. I use Redline heavyduty shockproof oil in the diff and box on the BMW, and so far so good.   I'm please to read that others use it too as I've just recomended it as the stuff to use.   I also put other Redline products in the Diff (lsd) & box of my every day 1990 BMW 325 tourer. It made a very stiff shift usable again.   Reg

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