The latest MSA Comic list various "proposed changes for consultation via Motorsports Now". On page 46 under 3.1.4 it says in the second paragraph:-
"Drivers in Clubman events where other clubs have accepted an invitation or and National B and above status events, must produce a valid Competition Licence as detailed in section E. and passengers must produce a valid Club Membership Card."
My reading of this is that passengers must be a member of a Motor Club unless its a Clubsport event. This would mean any passenger in an ACTC trial would have to have a Club Membership card. Not sure what "grade" an MCC trail event is i.e Clubsport, Clubman or national B
If this is right its a problem as many competitors use occassional passengers, friends, relations, work colleagues who are not members of a club.
What do others think?
Michael
Michael
ReplyDeletethis has been knoon for a couple of months now.
personally I think it is a good idea as it will stop drivers turning
up without passengers and relying on who is at the event available to step in so
they can compete!
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Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 11:00
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Subject: "and passengers must produce a
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On the other hand, I think it is a totally pointless idea, and wonder what the underlying agenda could be? Regarding competitors turning up without a passenger, hoping to 'collar' some poor unsuspecting individual? I cannot see a problem with this. For many would-be competitors, actually acquiring a reliable passenger can be extremely difficult. There are also occasions where a 'passenger' has to 'cry off' at the last moment...health, sudden prior commitment, etc. Such reasons ought not totally wash-out an entrant's chances of competing. In my experience, there are often many 'local' folk only too happy for the chance to 'passenger' ? I can recall, a number of years ago, on one of the first Ilkley trials, having my passenger back out at the last moment..(somehow, ''commitment''doesn't appeal to folk these days?)...I contacted the organisers, was informed there MUST be someone there who will 'passenger'.....so I drove over and signed on.....sadly, one look at my red Skoda put a lot of folk off the idea...but Peter Keightley volunteered at the last moment..having come to watch, he admitted he was dreading a 'no-hope' ride in the skoda.........the first real sections changed his tune! We won our class.....and as it happens at the time, the Ilkley club presented a small trophy not just to the driver, but to the passenger as well.....so Peter went home with a small cup...and some explaining to his missus as to how he came by it!!!! Currently, my usual, enthusiast passenger, has decided he does ot want to be bothered with the long-distance stress and fatigue of the MCC trials....so this year I must marshall....none of my family are interested......and many of my past passengers have got themselves involved in actually competing......or are simply too old to cope. the only reason I can see for insisting passengers have this bureaucratic red tape, is so that organisers can 'profit' from entry fees not taken up?
ReplyDeleteHaving "lost " several passengers over the years I tend to agree with both parties,however if paper work is required this will result in less cars taking part in events.How many people have had to get on the phone the night before an event looking for a passenger or as discussed steal a marshall at the start of the event? P.S.Wanted passenger for next trial season!!!
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteIt always amazes me how many drivers have the same passenger with the initals TBA!!!
perhaps we should have a list of available passengers so that marshals are not hijacked on the day of the event!!
From: rnuten@aol.com
To: ClassicalGasForTrialsenthusiasts@groups.msn.com
Subject: Re: "and passengers must produce a valid Club Membership Card"
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 05:17:43 -0700
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New Message on Classical Gas, For Trials enthusiasts
"and passengers must produce a valid Club Membership Card"
If the MSA's revision to this rule is not a misprint, then this rule was obcviously written by someone with no knowledge of the sport. Very many passengers are not members of motor clubs and have no intention of ever becoming members and if they were forced to be members may well decide not to bother, to the detriment of the drivers and sport. Is it too late to get this seemingly silly rule amended? Do we all need to email or write to the MSA or is this something that our clubs should be doing? Peter Mountain
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Peter, this is potentially a real turn-off for passengers and consequently a hassle for organisers and competitors. I am sure that many prospective competitors are put off from competing because they have to take out a club membership, making passengers do so as well would be a complete nonsense. The obvious answer for those clubs effected would be to offer 'family' and day memberships for nominal fees. Even if this change in legislation does not happen, I believe any club wanting to increase participation in its events or an increase in its membership should consider these sorts of ideas.
ReplyDeleteOK, Some facts before too much hysteria takes over. 1) MCC Events are not effected by this change. Competitors in these events require nothing. It is only for events where the driver requires a competitions licence. 2) This is NOT a new regulation, nor is it just a trials regulation. for trials it is in fact a relaxation of a regulation that has been around for a very long time but completely missed by almost everyone. If we were to correctly apply the regulation as it stands at the moment, passengers in National B Trials should hold a competitions licence. 2) This first came up at the MSA Trials Committee back in April. I tried to stop it, but failed. It was raised at ACTC Council in May, where I was mandated to go back to the MSA to try to knock it on the head, but failed. 3) There is a "cunning plan" in the offing, which will be discussed at ACTC Council in September which will allow people to become "Passenger Life Members" of ACTC for a nominal fee payable at the start of events. 4) Like other bits of apparent beaurocracy that have come out of Motorsports House, there is a reason for it, too complex to bother with here, Its going to happen, so get used to it. SIMON WOODALL
ReplyDeleteACTC Chairman
and it is exactly such an attitude that turns people away from activities? ''so get used to it?'' in this day and age, people don't like that sort of approach........trialling has too many competitors in the field of leisure pursuits.
ReplyDeleteI support alastair's last reply ,with our sport under attack from what appears to be every angle, a further load of nonsence from our govening body will not help at all,it will be intresting to see how many people will vote with ther feet as we can ill aford to loose any compeditors from the sport
ReplyDeleteCompetitors with motorcyles and sidecars have had this problem for years!
ReplyDeleteYes, it's a nuisance isn't it? Some clubs offer one event membership to
solve this problem. With motorcycles, a passenger has to have an ACU number
too though...
Don't have a go at Simon, he has tried his best to look after our interests and get the rule removed and has been overruled by our "lords and masters" at the MSA; even then he is trying to get a reasonable compromise to get round the ruling without putting our passengers off. Thanks Simon. Peter Mountain
ReplyDeleteI had no intention of digging at Simon..he knows better....I WAS taking a pop at those who feel things need not be changed, simply because everything's been all right up 'till now....or...'we've always done it this way?' perhaps a solution could be, for those (MCC?) members who actively compete, could not there be two club membership cards...one for the competitor, and for a SMALL fee, an additional blanket one for any passenger, not an existing member? Both these sent to the one [active] member? like a family membership card, sort-of-thing?
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree more,exactly my
ReplyDeletesentiments.
----- Original Message -----
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I have questioned this rule change with the MSA also and understand the reasons behind it - litigation / insurance should cover the explanation sufficiently in this age!
ReplyDeleteI am a member of a club whose membership card doesnt have a name on. I'm sure that competitors / organisers will work with the new rules - its got to be better than passengers needing a competition license. This is a relaxation of a rule that people had missed remember.
Passenger Licencing is now a fact of life.
ReplyDeleteFrom January passengers in National B events (read 1 day ACTC trials) will be required to produce a membership card from one of the clubs invited to the event.
For those passengers who are not members of a club, ACTC has introduced "passenger membership". This will entitle the member to participate in events as a passenger, and will cost £1.00 for a life subscription. It is expected that a stock of application forms will be available at the start of events. I hope this allays everone's fears.
Ok, so our passengers needing to be members of a club is a right pain in the rear end,especially as some of our passengers are 'part time' or last minute replacements,but I think Simon has done a cracking job at overcoming this for a quid for life ACTC 'passenger membership'. Thanks Simon I'm sure it will benefit me in the future....Nick
ReplyDeleteHere, Here. Well done Simon for a pragmatic solution. - Michael
ReplyDeleteto Simon.....thank you for your efforts. excellent solution, satisfies all?
ReplyDeleteI eco other classical gas members and congratulate Simon on all his efforts to sort out this passenger mess and I don’t want to poor cold water on the hard work done. But, I wonder, now the Association of Classics Trials Clubs are introducing a Passenger membership, which club will the passenger be a member of? There’s a choice of 26 according to my list. Or are the association setting up their own club, which will be associated to the association, with is own set of officials and rules. It could get complicated!
ReplyDeleteAlthough we call ourselves "The Association.....", in MSA speak we are in fact a "Recognised Group", membership criteria for which the MSA has very kindly left rather vague. The rules of ACTC have allowed for individuals to be members for some time. Championship contenders are "Competition Members" of ACTC, now we have "Passenger Members" as well. The main debating forum for the organisation of events by member clubs of ACTC is the "ACTC Council" to which Clubs are invited. Should ACTC organise any other form of meeting for other purposes, then individuals (both Passenger and Competition) would be invited to attend, and would be entitled to vote on any matters that might arise and require it.
ReplyDeleteFear not, I have burned much midnight oil in getting the legalistic side of this as kosher as possible.
Well done again.
ReplyDeleteThank you Simon. Regards Jonathan
ReplyDelete