Jason Byrom asks - The use of disabled 4X4s on classic trials, will all events take 4x4s that have a prop removed aka a 4x4 X-90!!?? I know you can get a 2wd one but you wont get the low range on a 2wd!!
I think it depends on the individual clubs. To be honest though, I can't see any real advantage to having low range. The transfer box and 4x4 front axle add a lot of weight in the wrong places. However if you already have a 4x4 X-90 and want to have a go, ask your local club and see what they say.
J55 is the rule that refers:- "Vehicles must be two-wheel drive only, unless SRs allow four-wheel drive. Four-wheel drive vehicles operating in two-wheel drive mode are not eligible, unless Permitted by SRs." Although some organisers DO take the option to allow these vehicle in, the general consensus is (1) They are not good PR - 4x4's are often blamed for the damage done to sections, and the difference between "them and us" is an important weapon in a organiser's armoury when persuading a land owner to let us play. (2) In competitive terms a 4x4 in 2x4 mode is, not to put too fine a point on it - rubbish - these vehicles are design around their 4WD systems and without it they are lost. They just become very heavy and with poor weight distribution. (3) Low range gearing is a blind alley. It is a tool to use as part of the 4x4 driving technique. 2WD driving technique calls for "maintaining momentum", you can't do that if you are very low geared.
J55 was "cut & paste" from my (pdf) copy of the 2009 book Dunno where the idea of a 16;1 gear ratio comes from thats new to me. I don't think the sporting trials crowd would like that one!
So if i was to go for a x-90 a 2wd one would seem the best, I no x-90 may be for some people out of spirit of classic trials, but after nearly 4 weeks to find the correct gearbox for my 205 and the fact that it could quite easily break again, this will be the third gearbox!! I am looking for something that I can just get in and go and have a enjoyable day out rather than missing trails and spending time working on the dam thing!!! Sorry for that rant...
Anyway as for driving techniques that's something I have a lack of at the mo, and less right foot may save other gearbox....
I don't think we have any owners here. However, there must be 5 or 6 different ones appearing on trials now. The thing that seems to restrict their competitiveness is that they are heavy
As you don't have an x-90 yet could I suggest that you look up a few trials results to find out what cars do well in each class so you can choose from a wide list of proven types and models. If the x-90 is something you have always wanted, then fine.
Diff, Every time a couple of planet wheels snap in half, then they come flying out the gearbox breaking the casing and going in to the bell housing and destroying the clutch as well. On the exmoor the outer drive shaft joint snaped which I think that then coursed the diff to go. I auto-crossed the same car and it never ever failed me once in 3 years!!
I have spoken to a couple of 205 geeks and they say the only diff which you cant break is the atb diff from quafie, but thats not aloud.................. But after watching some cars go up Highbray it does make you wonder..................
i thought that would be the problem, you need an Adrian Booth 4-pin special! I blew a diff in exactly the same way last year, the 205 i am using now has one of his diffs and i havent had a problem with it yet. Its not that cheap but given the fact that 9 times out of 10 a blown diff on a 205 means a dead gearbox and sometimes dead clutch, i'd say its well worth the investment.
Cheers hadn't heard of this 4-pin, just had a quick look on the web and unable to find any info, any chance on a website or texting me his tel number cheers. 07854752025
I think it depends on the individual clubs. To be honest though, I can't see any real advantage to having low range. The transfer box and 4x4 front axle add a lot of weight in the wrong places. However if you already have a 4x4 X-90 and want to have a go, ask your local club and see what they say.
ReplyDeleteJ55 is the rule that refers:-
ReplyDelete"Vehicles must be two-wheel drive only, unless SRs allow four-wheel drive. Four-wheel drive vehicles operating in two-wheel drive mode are not eligible, unless Permitted by SRs."
Although some organisers DO take the option to allow these vehicle in, the general consensus is
(1) They are not good PR - 4x4's are often blamed for the damage done to sections, and the difference between "them and us" is an important weapon in a organiser's armoury when persuading a land owner to let us play.
(2) In competitive terms a 4x4 in 2x4 mode is, not to put too fine a point on it - rubbish - these vehicles are design around their 4WD systems and without it they are lost. They just become very heavy and with poor weight distribution.
(3) Low range gearing is a blind alley. It is a tool to use as part of the 4x4 driving technique. 2WD driving technique calls for "maintaining momentum", you can't do that if you are very low geared.
Isn't there a clause that requires an overall ratio to be higher than 16:1 (That is widely ignored)?
ReplyDeletesimon can you read the j55 rule ,is it me or dos,nt it read right (the 2009 issue)
ReplyDeleteJ55 was "cut & paste" from my (pdf) copy of the 2009 book
ReplyDeleteDunno where the idea of a 16;1 gear ratio comes from thats new to me.
I don't think the sporting trials crowd would like that one!
The 16:1 thing always used to be in the regs for PCT's
ReplyDeleteSo if i was to go for a x-90 a 2wd one would seem the best, I no x-90 may be for some people out of spirit of classic trials, but after nearly 4 weeks to find the correct gearbox for my 205 and the fact that it could quite easily break again, this will be the third gearbox!! I am looking for something that I can just get in and go and have a enjoyable day out rather than missing trails and spending time working on the dam thing!!! Sorry for that rant...
ReplyDeleteAnyway as for driving techniques that's something I have a lack of at the mo, and less right foot may save other gearbox....
Cheers for the comments.
I don't think we have any owners here. However, there must be 5 or 6 different ones appearing on trials now. The thing that seems to restrict their competitiveness is that they are heavy
ReplyDeleteHi Jason,
ReplyDeleteAs you don't have an x-90 yet could I suggest that you look up a few trials results to find out what cars do well in each class so you can choose from a wide list of proven types and models. If the x-90 is something you have always wanted, then fine.
hi jason, out of interest - what went wrong with your previous gearboxes ?
ReplyDeleteGo on, you know you want it (although I would go for the Marlin)
ReplyDeletehttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1997-SUZUKI-X-90-2WD-BLUE_W0QQitemZ300292433645QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item300292433645&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A7|39%3A1|240%3A1318
Diff, Every time a couple of planet wheels snap in half, then they come flying out the gearbox breaking the casing and going in to the bell housing and destroying the clutch as well. On the exmoor the outer drive shaft joint snaped which I think that then coursed the diff to go.
ReplyDeleteI auto-crossed the same car and it never ever failed me once in 3 years!!
I have spoken to a couple of 205 geeks and they say the only diff which you cant break is the atb diff from quafie, but thats not aloud.................. But after watching some cars go up Highbray it does make you wonder..................
Delete that x-90! thats the one i am after!!!
i thought that would be the problem, you need an Adrian Booth 4-pin special! I blew a diff in exactly the same way last year, the 205 i am using now has one of his diffs and i havent had a problem with it yet. Its not that cheap but given the fact that 9 times out of 10 a blown diff on a 205 means a dead gearbox and sometimes dead clutch, i'd say its well worth the investment.
ReplyDeleteCheers hadn't heard of this 4-pin, just had a quick look on the web and unable to find any info, any chance on a website or texting me his tel number cheers. 07854752025
ReplyDeletewill do mate
ReplyDelete21 hours to go, no bids and its at 500 quid. Go for it.... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1997-SUZUKI-X-90-2WD-BLUE_W0QQitemZ300292433645QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item300292433645&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A7|39%3A1|240%3A1318
ReplyDeleteI see it went for £535, the winning bid 8 seconds from the end. Who got it? Will we see it on a trial?
ReplyDelete