I read the article on 'Hanging Back' which appeared in the latest issue of 'Restart' with a great deal of interest. As a very recent newcomer to the Trialling scene (three years as a passenger) I had never thought that an advantage could be gained from slipping down the field, deliberately or simply because other people were quicker at pumping up the tyres.
Surely the position in the field is a matter of swings and roundabouts. For one hill a front runner may have an advantage, for the next a later competitor may have a better chance.
Thinking back to last year's Exeter it was certainly true that the early Class 8 runners on Branscombe Bank had a harder time then the later entrants. In contrast, the Class 8 deviation on PIndale on the '99 Edinburgh favoured the lower numbers/earlier runners.
Does a hill like Simms provide a better chance early on, or later in the afternoon/night. Doing the hill in the dark surely cannot be an advantage.
One further example. From the three attempts that Stuart Harrold and I have had in the Troll at Hoskin on the Land's End by far the least difficult was in '99 when we were running relatively early and the restart had not been completely polished.
So, is this a major problem? Given the experience of the writer in Restart it would appear to be so. If this is the case, does it affect the one day trials more than the MCC events??
Whatever your view, enjoy the Exeter, and the beers and the dinner afterwards. And particularly the chat about the 'hill we nearly cleaned'.
Chris Phillips
This is an interesting subject. My buddies and I generally like to run near the front on an MCC event so we can hopefully get our head down for a few hours ready for the evening! I don't think everyone thinks this way. I was very interested to see that the last man home on the Edinburgh started near the front of the field. Now this guy is a very experienced competitor and was one of the very few people to get a triple.OK, he may have had a mega problem on the way round, who knows. Or he may have been a wiley old fox who worked out this would give him more favourable conditions. Certainly he wasn't breaking any (written) rules, although he would have been caught out if the MCC imposed the time limits for awards like they do on the Lands End.Personally I think that there are conditions when hanging back gives an advantage. Litton is an example. I believe that when it is run in the early morning it is more difficult until all the morning dew has disappered. Griends who have spectated on Simms tell me it is difficult early when the track is in the shade, becomes easier when the sun gets on it and becomes more difficult again when the sun starts to fall.It's like the rain. Have you noticed that on trials like the Allen, run on proper tracks with a hard surface somewhere underneath, most of the sections are not that difficult when it's really wet as all the mud is washed away!On balance if I had been on for a triple on the Edinburgh (I wish) I would have hung back.Hoping to chat to people in person tomorrow evening. I'm easy to recognise, tall, thin, bald, specs and a grey stubbly beard, just like the cartoon!May the Lord speed your progress up Simms.Michael
ReplyDeleteMichael,Thanks for your reply and also for the change to the caption at the front of the Community.My entrance is due to your suggestions on the Allen and to the skill and dexterity of my son.On Hanging Back, more experienced people than I are obviously better judges of how and why hills are going to behave.Stuart and I believe that you should crack on, you never know when a problem will strike and more time is needed to fix it.On a more mundane note, keeping going helps finish in the daylight which makes loading the car on a trailer that much easier and one gets home earlier which pacifies the wife/partner etc.It also means on the MCC events that you get at the beer at the end that bit sooner. Not a point to overlook I think.May see you at Popham later this evening/early tomorrow.Chris
ReplyDeleteIt is, as stated earlier, a case of swings and roundabouts, whether an early or late number is most advantageous or not. Take the Exeter, I was second car on the Class 7& 8 part of the Wooston Steep and didn't stand a chance, as the hill was still covered in leaves, but was also one of the first cars on Simms and had a relatively good climb, as opposeed to the later numbers. As already stated, the real reason of having an early number is to get to the bar first!!
ReplyDeleteI was just flicking through the message page when I saw that the "Hanging Back" article in Restart has caused something of a debate. I thought it would when I read it myself.The concern is not however aimed at the MCC events, as these involve the competitor competing against the club and not each other. In such events it is very much a case of "swings and roundabouts" as suggested in earlier messages. However due to the use of travelling marshals on these events the competitors can be easily penalised if they decide to attempt such tactics to gain an advantage.The concern is however aimed at the ACTC one day trials where competitors are competing directly against one another. In the latter half of the year there were a select few drivers who would repeatedly finish the day near the end of the trial and certainly near the end of their class in running order. The question seems to have arisen of why?It would appear that these competitors would prefer to watch the rest of their class attempt the sections first and judge the hill depending on their performance. This can make a big difference if you get to see a fellow competitor struggle for grip when you know roughly what tyre pressures they chose to attempt the hill with. If everyone sticks to their positions in the class then on some events one driver would have an advantage and on others it would fall in favour of another competitor. What happened towards the end of last year on a number of events in the South West, was that the same competitors would immediately drop to the back of their class, either with or without the pretence of a problem. This of course then had a knock on effect within the class as those who had been overtaken would drop back themselves. On the Tamar in particular the organisers commented in the final results as marshals and competitors were finishing the day some two hours later than scheduled primarily due to this problem.Its disappointing to see drivers try to gain an advantage in such a way as opposed to "playing the game" fairly. It was a small minority and I believe that most organisers will now be watching carefully and possibly invoking severe penalties.I hope this explains what I understand the problem to be. I can only say how lucky I am to compete in a class where I can say that without exception no driver that I know of uses such tactics. Long live Class 4!!Giles Greenslade
ReplyDeleteGiles,Thank you for your response. It has certainly answered the question of whether the problem exist more for the one day trials or for the MCC Events.Stuart Harrold and I did the Tamar in the Troll and we did seem to pass an awful lot of Class 8 cars on the road, even though we finished well over an hour behind schedule.Some of this was due to deciding to have a proper lunch at Chew Magna and part to Pete Fear (who we were running with) loosing one of his footpumps on one of the bumpier sections. Chris
ReplyDeleteJust as a note it was pleasing to see that whilst reading through my fathers regs for the Clee Hills Trial this weekend that the organisers have addressed this very subject.There is a paragraph which mentions that there will be two checks done during the trial at which point the competitors running order will be noted. If the competitor is found to be more than ten places behind their scheduled position they MAY be liable to a 10 point penalty.This, if administered properly could be a good thing as it should help to identify people who repeatedly hang back.The unfortunate down side of this is that if a compeditor does have a genuine problem he/she might need to prove it in some way.
ReplyDeleteThis is an interesting subject, I am the driver Chris Phillips normally passengers. Our policy is to press on in case there is trouble, get to the beer first and to load the trailer in daylight. I am doing the Clee Hills and running number 2. The sad thing about this rule is I cannot wait and run with my mate Pete Fear at no.13. So its taking a bit of the social side away from trials just to catch the selfish few. I will report back next week on the Clee. Stuart
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