Hello all!
I'm in the early stages of getting started trialling, ie I've had a few goes, and am now looking to get a car of my own. Initially for PCT's but something that is capable of being developed into Classic trial car.
My preferred configuration would be front engined, rear wheel drive, open top, which I think would point me towards Marlins, Duttons, Spartans etc.
What should I be looking for or avoiding?
Your opinions would be very welcome!
Richard N
Dutton! Cheap bits available from just about everywhere. If you batter the bodywork on the scenery, it's dead easy to glue back together with a fibreglass kit. Chassis are simple and strong - and easy to repair if you have half an idea of welding. If you're anywhere near Skipton/Colne, feel free to come prod the Yeller Dutton - currently in a few more bits than usual due to a need to fettle something somewhere ;-) Bri
ReplyDeleteHi Bruv! I can't recommend the best car for trials but avoid Clan Crusaders - they're awful!
ReplyDeleteRichard - Don't ignore your Clan, Bill Moffatt was national PCT champion in one in the 90's and I think it would be fine on the MCC's Class 0. Otherwise I think you are right with your choice of a Dutton or a Marlin (not sure about a Spartan). Personally I would go for a Marlin that had the right back axle and was already trials prepared. Have you seen Abdrew Brown's Marlin stuff at http://www.wheelspin.org.uk/ although this website is technically closed its a mine of Marlin information. Goto "Technical Topics" However, for reliabilty get someting with a VW engine and transmission. Michael
ReplyDeleteWouldn't touch a Spartan with a barge pole. You only have to look at the numbers out on trials to realise that they don't work. Why? The engine, in its triumph based chassis, is far too far forward. You will end up loading so much ballast into the back that the car will then become too heavy. Catch-22
ReplyDeleteYou really have two choices. If your mood and enthusiam leans towards working on a car in the garage and developing it yourself, go for the Dutton, either Melos or Phaeton. If you want a turn-key car, buy a Marlin off Steve Holder. Then its just turn up and compete. I call it "Wash and Go" trialling 'cos all you do after each event is wash the car then its ready to go.
However, if you want to win, then the best car is one you did not mention. Vincent. 15" wheels, standard Ford running gear, engine well back in the chassis, cycle wings for a good view. Ideal. Expensive.
Don't be put off from either type of trial, but cars that are good for PCT's are not necessaraly good for classics and vice verca. An example was my old Skoda that was a competitive but not class winning classic trials car and was useless for PCTs (or was it the driver?)
ReplyDeleteI'm with Simon (Woodall) on this one. A Vincent ticks all the boxes if you can find, and afford, one. A Dutton (preferably a Melos) is best if you want to win and don't mind the fettling. A Marlin is best if you just want to have fun for minimum effort. But don't expect to do well with a B-Series engined one on any event that is remotely competitive (unless you're Pete Hart), go for a Ford or a Fiat engined one. And remember that, with all three options, you'll be in Class 7 and up against the "modified-beyonds" when they come out to play. Andrew
ReplyDeletea vincent ? ive only seen two trial, one of which is outstanding but when you know who the driver is you can understand why (its been said he could get a double decker bus up simms ) why not try class 1 it could do with a few more cars and your in the dry with a heater
ReplyDeleteThanks for all your input, it looks like a Dutton Melos or Phaeton is favourite! What sort of features should I be looking for? And what sort of pitfalls should be avoided? Thanks Richard N
ReplyDeleteThe front mounting for the cart spring on a Dutton is not very strong since it is merely two bits of steel strip end welded to 16 gauge square tubing. Some Dutton owners recommend reinforcing this by welding.
ReplyDeleteRichard. Not sure if you have found a car yet ? I just spotted a Dutton Phaeton on Ad Trader.co.uk "breaking or sell complete, no engine or box, offers. Tel. 07039 585 166 " So should be cheap. It is in Swansea and ad. was only posted on the 12th December.
ReplyDeleteSorry for not updating, but I've bitten the bullet and bought a Dutton Melos! It has a 1600 crossflow, 4 speed box, rear leaf springs, and what I believe to be Triumph front suspension (I'm guessing based on what the Dutton web site says!), lots of niggly faults which seem easily fixable with a bit of time and patience, and lots of potential! My main targets to get it to a useable standard, is to increase the ground clearance significantly, get the exhaust out of the way, and fit a sump guard. Also, it is VERY yellow!!! Richard
ReplyDeleteAh ha! I'm guessing now that you are RichardN on the Dutton Owners Club forums? In which case, I'm the same Bricol. Got to admit I'm surprised a Melos has Triumph front suspension - but that's the same as our Phaeton. It's possible to lift the front end a long way by carefull work and stay well within the rules and regulations without the (illegal?) chassis mods I've seen elsewhere. Does it have round, or channel section (horizontal U shape) wishbones? Do the front wheels fit on the rear? If it's Triumph, there's a strong possibility it still uses Triumph hubs which is a different PCD to the rear if it uses a Ford axle. Rear end I'm not so sure on - I've owned two later Phaetons that were leaf sprung, but neither ran, so never used them. But I'd lay odds on it having lowering blocks between axle and springs - so remove them and you've gained 2". Our's uses the Dutton 4 bar link - destroys bushes very rapidly (a set nearly last one trial) but the articulation we get is impressive. And at 50p a bush, I can keep changing them for a while yet. Exhaust, if you can weld, and have the bits (a chat to your local exhaust place and a rummage in their scrap pile in exchange for beer vouchers and you can find a load of very useable, previously enjoyed, bits of pipe, bends and elbows) is easy lifted out of the way. I'm trying to figure out if you can email me direct with me needing to post my address in plain view - but if you can, email me and I'll let you into a few more secrets we found - first is 14" wheels, the biggest you are allowed to run. Bri
ReplyDeleteHi Richard If your melos has triumph front suspension its not on a melos chassis. The melos should have an escort bottom arm/anti-roll bar. This uses a dutton top wishbone and an austin ball joint fixed to a cut off strut. It a slightly weird affair but seems to work. The details are available from the original build manual available from the Owners Club website. Neil
ReplyDeleteNeil and Brian, Having grazed at the build manual, it looks like my front suspension is as described, with a Dutton top wishbone and FoMoCo lower arm. As you say, it seems to work, and there seems to be plenty of lock!
ReplyDelete